greyias | Kindred II - The Greywolf is Not Amused

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Kindred II - The Greywolf is Not Amused

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I feel cheated.

Yeah, yeah, I know after Gateworld publicaly retracted the statement about the Kindred Carson not being a clone I should have been prepared for this... but still. I was willing to accept the world's most intricate kidnapping plot, I mean sure, I would have ridiculed it a little, but if we got Carson back I would've done my best to overlook it.

But this isn't Carson.

I mean it is, but it isn't.

First off, he was wearing blue, which should not have made my eye twitch, but oh, it did. I'm petty like that.

But I think what annoys me the most, other than the fact that we were promised 100% Carson (a statement I'm going to find for my own peace of mind), is that this means Carson really died. He's dead. He really died because of a stupid exploding tumor, and damn it, that stings. And this clone, he's Carson, he really is in that he walks, talks, and quacks like a duck, has all of the same reactions... but I still feel cheated. I would've felt bad that Season 3 Carson wasn't real, but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe it's just indigestion, but still.

Okay, to the positive points: Rodney!

Not only Rodney(!), but Protective!Rodney, constantly shoving Carson out of danger (after he does his Rodney Dance of Panic, which is so incredibly adorable I had to hold in my squee), practically snarling at Sam for suggesting that this Carson is less (yeah, he'd be snarling at me... but I know I'll get over it eventually), and trying to get him to stay behind. Oh, the only thing that could've made it better for me was Rodney whump (I mean, there were plenty of stunners flying around), but that's just my insatiable whumper appetite talking.

And John, oh, emotive John, especially at the end where he reaches out and I'm like "What? You can hug Clone Carson?" but no, it was the John Sheppard version of a hug, a supportive manly bicep squeeze. Oh, John!

Carson and Keller! It's my own personal fanon that he brought her to Atlantis, sort of taking her under his wing and that's one of the reasons she was chosen to succeed him. Completely fanon, but hey, it's not contradicted by anything in the episode, unlike others (*coughDAVEcough*).

Sam, playing the Devil's Advocate, ah, Sam... well, I won't say anything else in case spoilerphobes are reading. But yes, saying everything that had to be said, bringing up all the negatives.

(Clone)Carson: As I said, for all intents and purposes it is Carson, and I loved his reaction to the news (although I would've loved to see some incredulity on a "I was killed... by an exploding tumor?") about his death, and, oh, I hurt for him on learning about Elizabeth's "death". Poor guy, that's a lot to take in. And Rodney really had his woobie face going on there. (I'd give him a hug, but he takes them about as well as John.)

And of course, I loved seeing the Athosians again. And Halling was there! Hooray for Halling! Oh man, they didn't look so good. Doesn't Michael know he has to feed his test subjects? Or was he absent the day they covered that in Human Test Subjects 101? I mean, they really looked like they had been trapped there for months. I'm going to pretend Jinto was just hidden somewhere within that crowd. I'm really glad the Athosians survived (well, most of them), because y'know, genocide really isn't that fun of a storyline. That and that would have altered Teyla, permanently. And I don't want her to get too dark. I've got the feeling this whole Kanan thing ain't going to end well.

Timeline note: Okay, so now "Sunday" is supposed to have taken place six months after "Misbegotten", did I hear that right? (And this takes place two YEARS after the episode?) And so like 4/5th's of Season Three was supposed to take place over six months? I mean, they spent six weeks of that on Earth during "Return, Part 1". So everything else (Sateda, Irresponsible, Common Ground, 3/4 of the team getting shot in "Phantoms"... should I go on?) happened within such a short time span? Like what? A week? I'm calling shenanigans on that one.

On a final note, "Last Man" looks very interesting.

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Whats so interesting is that a good friend of mine said she would have felt cheated if the real Carson had not died because of the grief and emotion in "Sunday" and all the episodes we saw and felt were not the real Carson.

So while I was surprised we did get a clone, even I thought we were told there wasn't going to be one--I have to agree. I felt emotion when Carson our Carson died ..if he had been a cloned then yes that would have angered me more.

I liked how having clone!Carson won't be an easy fix, there will be issued and its going to be work. I don't like the idea that we didn't find out how he had the memories but I guess begrudge the fact that we the ans wanted him back and we got him..in some way or another. My emotions were still high and the ending hurt, so that worked for me.

I still have a whole review to write but yes to Halling! Very cool to see him back.

And Ronon! He didn't want to go through the wringer again but he did.

Rodney's scenes were pure gold, that roller coaster ride was just..GUH He doesn't care...his friend is back.

The last scene...that was just...*shivers* that was good and sad and damn it please make it all better!

I think you and your friend are right. I think I had just prepared myself so much for the fact that we were going to have an elaborate and stupid bait and switch that it took me a little too off guard. A little sleep and a second viewing of the episode and I've come down from the little ledge I was on last night.

The last scene...that was just...*shivers* that was good and sad and damn it please make it all better!

I'm not sure where you stand on spoilers, so I'll not say too much, other than to agree. Yes, I hope they make it all better (but not too quick, I like my angst). And oh... was there angst. Everyone's performance was out-of-the-park this episode. Ahh... I'll probably say more on your review. Apparently I'm emoting enough that I've aroused the attention of the room's other occupants.

I'm afraid my reaction is just like Rodney's - who cares if he's a clone, he's Carson in every way and therefore is Carson! I loved the episode, loved Rodney's reaction's, and Carson's, and John's, and Ronon's (and Teyla's) and... yeah, you get the point!

Though I do wish they'd explained HOW a bit - I mean, how did he clone Carson and when exactly (on that planet or later?) and how/when did Michael transer Carson's memories etc over? And yeah, timeline is a bit messed up - will have to watch it again to see if the six months is definite or could be interpreted as a 'sort of/about' and therefore could be stretched a month or two (people's memories being what they are - I mean, ask me how long between a and b and even if both events were significant my guess might not be accurate; it's hard to remember how long I've been married, after all!).

Overall though I'm happy that we have a Carson back who acts like him etc. I'm also happy that there is a problem that needs fixing and it's not all rainbow and sunshine and puppies! The ending was very emotional (poor Rodney).

I can understand how some fans will feel cheated by clone Carson - but I'm not one of them. Agree to differ if probably best though. Looking forward to the next one but with a bit of trepidation...not too good at these cliffhangers that don't get resolved for MONTHS!!!!

Yes! I asked the questions you asked about HOW, but seriously, I don't want to know, because the more they explain, the more I'll nitpick. I'll take my clone Carson and be happy with him. (Gimme my clone, now! I want him out of stasis and healthy, stat!)

If you've read my entry, Greyias, you'll notice the little victory dance I can't help doing that I was happy my s3 stories are about the "real" Carson--but honestly, it would have worked the other way 'round too. I'm happy to have any Carson, and I was quite prepared to write a (probably lengthy) justification of why my stories "Haar" (which follows directly on "Misbegotten" and deals with Carson's traumas in the preceding episodes) and "The Unrelenting Past" still worked even for a clone Carson. But now I don't have to! Yay!

And hey! Maybe we didn't get the whole thing right, but we said there was a stasis pod involved! We rock! BH looked at me when I said that last night and said, "After the fact!" I said, "But we said stasis, and there's stasis! I don't care when! We got that bit right!"

I'm counting this as a win. It probably helps that I had already thought of a dozen ways they could screw up the episode royally, and they didn't do any of them.

Oh, my poor, suffering Rodney! I hope we get Carson out real soon now!

The HOW... maybe it's time for another Brilliant Aelfgyfu-Greywolf theory! I'm sure JM will appreciate it (despite his evil last minute rewrites so we would be wrong, wrong, wrong).

Actually, I'm thinking maybe in Michael's dastardly and long-reaching plans to take over the Pegasus Galaxy (one convoluted plot thread at a time) he might have taken his Carson Beckett DNA Sample® to ye olden Wraith Cloning Center ala "Spoils of War", and stuck it through the machine to make his insta-Carson™. Now, as for the memories and nuances... that was far more dastardly. (So dastardly I have to think on it some more, but I'm sure it involves mind-linking and subliminal messages)

And I'm glad that they didn't invalidate Season Three Carson (or any of our stories... because yeah!) Most of my pouting at this point is moot. We've got him back, and that's what matters.

I'm counting this as a win. It probably helps that I had already thought of a dozen ways they could screw up the episode royally, and they didn't do any of them.

Oh, my poor, suffering Rodney! I hope we get Carson out real soon now!

Poor, woobie Rodney. I think the sentiment over on

friendshipper's post as that Team Sheppard needs to get drunk. I concur. And I'm not sure on the episode order of next year, but I think it might be the second or fourth episode we get something Carson heavy.

'm thinking maybe in Michael's dastardly and long-reaching plans to take over the Pegasus Galaxy (one convoluted plot thread at a time) he might have taken his Carson Beckett DNA Sample® to ye olden Wraith Cloning Center ala "Spoils of War", and stuck it through the machine to make his insta-Carson™.
Ooh, I like that! (Who has the copyright on the Carson Beckett DNA Sample® and the trademark on insta-Carson™? Is it Michael? Curse him!)

I think Michael must have done a complete download of Carson's mind through the Psychic Wraith Link (PWL) while Carson was in his clutches (note that in my story "Haar" I cleverly fudged how long Michael had had Carson, because from the episode it could have been anywhere from a day to a week). Of course, that's a heck of a lot for Michael to remember, and he must have been quite relieved to upload it through the PWL to insta-Carson™. Michael may not have retained everything, or doesn't understand it all. At any rate, he's not as brilliant a geneticist as Carson (even insta-Carson™) is, so he still needs Carson. He also seems surprised by Carson's return, so he clearly misunderestimated the good doctor, despite having all the contents of his mind, at least briefly.

Stupid question time: I've seen several people use the word "woobie," and I'm not exactly sure what it means> (Hey, it took me a long time to get "emo," and I still can't define it.)

I'm not sure about the team getting drunk. I'm worried that poor Rodney will turn out to be a morose drunk, which would be just awful!

Ooh, I like that! (Who has the copyright on the Carson Beckett DNA Sample® and the trademark on insta-Carson™? Is it Michael? Curse him!)

I've heard rumor it could also be a yet-to-be-revealed Wraith Consortium. Either way, the legal battles are going to be hell when all of this is over and done with.

Stupid question time: I've seen several people use the word "woobie," and I'm not exactly sure what it means

Urban Dictionary gives a definition close to how I understand it: A term of endearment (like "baby); someone who is so cute/sad/adorable you want to hug and comfort them.

...basically, Emo Rodney. *eg*

And it turned out that Rodney was a morose drunk (that's what I spent last night doing... I know you were curious). At least this time around. I see him being one of those happy drunks any time it doesn't involve people dying/going-into-stasis-for-a-long-time.

Ah! Now I see what "woobie" means, and I think I can use it in a sentence!

Yes, I was terribly afraid Rodney could get that way when drunk. So is this a story I'll be seeing at some point?

I've heard rumor it could also be a yet-to-be-revealed Wraith Consortium. Either way, the legal battles are going to be hell when all of this is over and done with.
Dang, and I bet the Wraith have good laywers (are good lawyers?) too.

Yes, internet speak can escape me at times too. I had to wikipedia "pwn" in order to understand the term fully.

Yes, I was terribly afraid Rodney could get that way when drunk. So is this a story I'll be seeing at some point?

Oh, whoops, yeah! I wound up posting it on flashfic sometime yesterday. (I think before I began my mini-SG1 marathon). And just for fun, a Rodney-as-a-happy-drunk, purely for scientific comparison purposes.

Sad Drunk (http://community.livejournal.com/sga_flashfic/716564.html) | Happy Drunk (http://greyias.livejournal.com/4030.html)

Okay, I brought Brilliant Husband into the consultations, and here's his contribution:

So, Michael takes his Carson Beckett DNA Sample® at the end of "Michael," unbeknownst to our heroes, so he has plenty of time to work on it. The clone is nearly ready to go by "Allies," but Michael needs to get the real Carson apart to do the memory transfer. When the Hive comes in "Misbegotten," Michael doesn't have to store Carson's memory; he does a direct transfer via the PWL while both insta-Carson™ and real Carson are unconscious--Brilliant Husband enacted the scene for me, one hand reaching out to each Carson to do the PWL. (Now if only we'd had two Carsons to do it properly. Oh, well.) The memories transfer, and Michael doesn't have to hold them all in his head (for which he is very grateful, because he really doesn't want to remember all those hours and hours Carson spent in conversation with his dear friend Rodney, or Carson's Mum, or most of what actually fills Carson's head). Carson is left on the planet for his friends to find, and Michael escapes with insta-Carson™, who thinks he's the only Carson in existence.

Will that do?

Yes, yes I think it will do just fine!

Michael knows the merits of thinking ahead! Of course he'd get his Carson Beckett DNA Sample® as soon as possible. I love the image of him using the PWL, hands on both Carson and insta-Carson™'s head like an Evangelical preacher. Do you think JM will be impressed with our continued and awesome deductive reasoning?

Do you think JM will be impressed with our continued and awesome deductive reasoning?
Ooh, let's find out!

Do you think it needs more work, or that the concept is ready to go?

And do you want to post it this time, or should I?

I think the overall concept is ready to go (and we should definitely leave in the trademark symbols). What do you think, should we phrase it something like:

"For all the naysayers out there..."?

(I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so that's about as far as I got.)

Okay, how's this:

We've seen people complaining about how Michael could have cloned a complete Carson and given him all of the real Carson's memories through "Misbegotten." Well, for all the nay-sayers out there, Greyias and I, in consultation with my Brilliant Husband, have come up with answers. Feel free to incorporate them into a season five script or two, Mr. Mallozzi; all we ask is that you credit us properly. (Remember, Aelfgyfu is spelled A-e-l-f-g-y-f-u. And Greyias also goes by Grey, Grey Lupous, Greywulf Lupous--you'd better put them all in there just to be sure.)

Ready? Here goes:

in Michael's dastardly and long-reaching plans to take over the Pegasus Galaxy (one convoluted plot thread at a time), he took his Carson Beckett DNA Sample® way back at the end of the episode "Michael" and brought it to ye olden Wraith Cloning Center ala "Spoils of War", and stuck it through the machine to make his insta-Carson™. He then has plenty of time to work on it. The clone is nearly ready to go by "Allies," but Michael needs to get the real Carson apart to do the memory transfer. When the Hive comes in "Misbegotten," Michael does a direct memory transfer between real Carson and insta-Carson™ via the PWL (Psychic Wraith Link) while both Carsons are unconscious--hands on both Carson and insta-Carson™'s head like an Evangelical preacher. The memories transfer, and Michael doesn't have to hold them all in his head (for which he is very grateful, because he really doesn't want to remember all those hours and hours Carson spent in conversation with his dear friend Rodney, or Carson's Mum, or most of what actually fills Carson's head). Carson is left on the planet for his friends to find, still thinking he's the only Carson Beckett in existence, and Michael escapes with insta-Carson™, who thinks he's the only Carson Beckett in existence.

We should note that the copyright on the Carson Beckett DNA Sample® and the trademark on insta-Carson™ may be held by Michael or by an as-yet-unidentified Wraith consortium, so you may want to consult a lawyer about permissions before using those.

--So, will that do? Did I spell all your aliases right? Did I leave any out?

Perfect!

Love how you spell your name out for him! Wonder if he'll bite this time around ;)

Okay! I've spelled your name correctly, made a couple of other little tweaks, and posted. Our comment is "currently awaiting moderation" under Mallozzi's blog entry for last night; he hasn't done tonight yet, so he might yet respond tonight! I do hope he does--but even if he never responds, we'll know he's read it because all comments are moderated, and we had fun, which is what really counts.

Brilliant Husband had fun too.

He snubbed us! (Well, and everyone else too. No mailbag this time around.) Guess our theory hit too close to home.

T'was fun though, especially Reverend Michael and his healing Wraith hands.

Agree to differ if probably best though.

We could, but I'm slowly coming around. Peer pressure, and the fact that my resolve is easily crumbled. Especially when I see just how much Rodney's lip trembles throughout the episode. Who can argue with the trembling lip? Gets me every time.

Though I do wish they'd explained HOW a bit - I mean, how did he clone Carson and when exactly (on that planet or later?) and how/when did Michael transer Carson's memories etc over?

I've got a brilliant theory posted below, that will (eventually) make it all clear. You will be astounded, so bowled over in shock... well, I'll try not to hype you up too much. Just scroll down (but finish reading this reply first!)

Overall though I'm happy that we have a Carson back who acts like him etc. I'm also happy that there is a problem that needs fixing and it's not all rainbow and sunshine and puppies!

I'm so glad we didn't have one of those "ticking timebomb" type of things, where Carson had been brainwashed to betray everyone at a convenient moment. The way they've handled it has at least paved the way to giving us Carson back (and doing it in a way so that Keller keeps her position and we avoid another Jonas/Daniel situation).

Looking forward to the next one but with a bit of trepidation...not too good at these cliffhangers that don't get resolved for MONTHS!!!!

I'm holding out the vain hope we won't be left hanging this time, and just be waiting for story threads to be resolved. Hush, it's a nice fantasy, let me hold onto it for a week.

ETA: Apparently it's scrolling up. Crazay LJ.

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Kindred II - The Greywolf is Not Amused

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