greyias | The Stargate Romance Rant... it's been brewing for a while now.

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The Stargate Romance Rant... it's been brewing for a while now.

SGA. I love you.

I really do.

I love your teaminess, your crackiness, I adore your snark. I love seeing Bill Nye the Science Guy acting like Rodney, and Rodney the mighty lumberjack as he breaks down a door to be Mr. Hero. I really do.

But we have a problem here.

You suck at (intentional) romance.

You really suck at it, and I've been able to turn a blind eye up to this point. So, while I did enjoy 90% of "Brain Storm" and would have made a happy post o' squee... you're going to make me rant. Because I've been holding it in since "The Shrine".

Okay, see, I enjoyed this episode right up until the very end. I really did. I handwaved the science, and I enjoyed Rodney and Keller's interactions, so I was ready to give them a "Woohoo! You finally figured out how to do roman--DEAR GOD NO! NO! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME?" So, uh, despite my intentions to make a squeeful post about every episode... this one's not going to be so much. I do have squee for the episode, I did enjoy it, but the end... sorry guys, I gotta rant.

I really don't mind the idea of McKay/Keller. I really don't. While I prefer that he be single canonically, mostly for selfish ficcing purposes as I've explained to

xparrot, I don't mind the idea of him and Keller together. I like her character for the most part, and in theory, it's cute. It's the execution on the show that I'm having problems with.

In theory, I'm not opposed to McKay/Keller. (I aslo hate portmanteus, so I'm going to avoid them for this post.) I think she's a much better match for him than Katie. She seems to actually understand that Rodney is Rodney, and just isn't "having a grumpy day" like I got the impression of Katie in "Quarantine" (and on that ntoe: WTF writers?) She's someone who looks like she'll allow Rodney to be himself, but try to encourage him to tone down other aspects of his personality. I think the "Kinder, Gentler Rodney McKay" is something that's in his mind, and I think she'd probably smack him upside the head if she realized that he was trying to dumb himself down for her.

OFF TOPIC SIDETRAIN - Kind of like John... Honestly, I saw a lot of parallels with her and John in this episode... you probably could have switched them out and not had to change the lines much. Which is, uh, strange. And off topic. And right, I'm supposed to be getting to my rant.

Back on topic, I liked the fact that at the end, Rodney even told her "Screw this! It does matter to me!", because that's our Rodney right there.

But...

I really, really, really, really, REALLY hated the last few seconds of "The Shrine". And I hated the call back to it in this episode just that much more. To break it down:

ONE
Now, I'm sure some people did, and power to them, but there was absolutely no way in the world I can find it cute, flattering, or even the tiniest bit romantic that someone who is mentally regressing to tell me that he loves me. I would find it creepy. And insulting. And there are a lot of reasons why, but it boils down to the fact that it's not really that person telling me that. Part of a person is not a whole person. To me, that basically said, "Part of me loves you. But whole me doesn't."

Yes, yes, I know what they were trying to say is that Rodney with all of his walls and his social awkwardness couldn't say it. (Possibly because the relationship hadn't progressed to the point of LOVE DECLARATIONS? Oh wait, that's point two.) That's not what it said to me though. It basically said to me, "We the writers have absolutely no clue what's romantic, but we think the chicks would dig this, because I think I saw it in a sappy romantic movie my wife/girlfriend/significant other dragged me to once. And she cried, so I guess it worked then."

Of course, I don't cry or get all emotional in most chick flick movies either, so my opinion might not really count here.

TWO
"I've loved you... I have for some time now."

O RLY? YOU HAVE? "FOR SOME TIME NOW"?

Where is my onscreen evidence of this? Where the hell is my build up? Where is the indication that Rodney and Keller hang out and enjoy each other's company before all of this? Where is the indication that they're close friends to where this statement might make one lick of sense? Did it all happen off screen? Maybe it could have. Maybe there was an indication on both sides that things were building up to this point--

McKAY: Jennifer, we practically dated.

KELLER: You bought me one drink! That's hardly dating!

McKAY: Right, so, well now I'm asking you to have dinner with me -- I mean ... (he brandishes the pot again, smiling at her) ... such as it is.

Oh, wait -- there wasn't. In the same fricking episode as mine most hated statement. I can buy, maybe, and that's if you liquor me up a little, that Rodney has fallen for her over the course of "The Shrine" and possibly since "Trio". But... "for some time now"? That's not some time. That's hardly any time.

This statement does not work in real life, hell, this doesn't work in well written television life unless you're in the seventh grade and you're asking out the popular girl you've been oggling all year long in homeroom class. People who have real relationships don't suddenly love someone without a reason. Especially love they've had for a long time now but they've been secretly harborinng. I belive in adult world, we call that a crush. Crushes ≠ Love. Crushes = Crushes.

I really don't mind Rodney and Keller declaring their love for each other, but for the love of the freaking Ori, can you please show me how we get from a beer after "Trio" to TRUE WUB in "The Shrine". I mean, I don't need huge acts of enormity, I just need... actual scenes together? Where they enjoy each other's company. And if we are going to be all trite and have huge sweeping, awkwardly written declarations of love, can we please have our characters be mentally whole and sound while doing so?

THREE
Ah, the ~~cliched~~ classic "callback line". Which works about half the time. (Usually it works better if it made more sense on the first round.) We do have the benefit that they've had more screen time together, and seem to enjoy each other's company. So, character-wise, it can work. It might even work for me ~~if it wasn't so badly written~~ if I didn't hate the original so much.

All right, I'll just be honest here. My pipe dream was that they'd deal with that stupid line properly in the "That was horribly awkward, made me uncomfortable when you said it, but I do have feelings for you" kind of way. Since I know them, and that they thought that was the love declaration for the ages, I was more hoping against hope they'd forget to even address the stupid thing. That way, I could be 100% canon compliant when I wrote things, I could have that as an issue that Rodney and Keller would work through in their relationship, rather than be the foundation for it.

Brain damaged love declarations as the foundation of a relationship. Seriously. SRSLY?

I know it was supposed to be sweet and cute. But for me, it really wasn't.

FOUR
WE LOVE EACH OTHER. LET'S HAVE SEX.

No, no, let's not date each other, make sure we're on the same page, put some emotional foundation on this relationship as we transition from friends to something more. Let's just get down to the part that apparently really matters. We could wait and possibly act like normal people who might have an awkward transition phase, we have a private jet plane now, and we've always wanted to get on the Mile High Club.

I hate it in fanfic, I hate it in shows. A friendship is a relationship. It matters. And it matters that you're going to be friends after you resolve your UST. (That I don't really see, but I don't see it 90% of the time, so my opinion... probably don't count much.) Friends who start to date each other I would expect in most cases would, even if they've wanted to for a while and yearned for it, be terrified and horribly awkward about it.

~~But then Martin Gero couldn't live out his fantasies vicariously through his writing.~~

FIVE
This one is all me here, I'll admit. The age thing seriously, seriously is bothering me more than I thought it would (when they start suggesting sexual acts. (I blame

dovil's "Creepy Uncle Rodney" rant from last season.) Them kissing is kind of cute, but the thought of something more starts to wig me out. Can we have a statement that Keller is at least thirty? Plz? Because for some reason, fifteenish age year difference really squicks me more than a ten year gap.

On a side note, why can't I think of her as Jennifer in my mind?

In conclusion: I love you show. Why do we have to fight?

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, maybe I can make my regular post o' squee in a little bit. Also! I need to make a birthday post o' squee, because I got presents! :D

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

...okay, so, this might get a bit long, apologies in advance :-p.

On your points of why the show oh so loses at writing believable romance, I agree COMPLETELY! All five of your points are spot on! (Including the age thing, which is funny, cause I actually often go for age differences, it's actually kinda a kink. But it disturbs/disappoints me when it's never MENTIONED. One of the things that can be fun/interesting about a big age gap is the adversity that goes with it, proving that your relationship, your bond, transcends your generation gap and the doubts others cast upon it. Except here, no doubts, not even a single raised eye-brow that she's possibly young enough to be his daughter...)

The problem I keep having is I don't see how the relationship *ever* could work. You mention at one point the lack of seeing them just enjoying each other's company previous to "The Shrine". I still find such scenes lacking, up to and including this ep. Keller, nor Rodney for that matter, ever come across like they're really having *fun* with each other. She had to remind him he was sitting with a "beautiful woman." Because the love and lust and UST is such that she has to POINT THIS OUT! Oh show. She spends the entire ep nagging him, asking him to change his conversation, change his personality and pointing out that she's coming only because she's (I guess) interested in him. Past that she keeps stating how much she finds the subject deathly dull. Physics, y'know, Rodney's greatest passion, holds not a single lick of interest for her. And he finds her field equally deplorable, as so much past evidence would suggest. Not that they have to share all their interests. But they have to have *something* in common. And when they're two people who live their careers, having respect/interest in those fields I think does start to really come into play. Heck, they don't even enjoy the same food in this. (poor Rodney and his strawberry phobia *smishes him*)

She doesn't even know him well enough to trust him when he stands up and says this is a BAD PLAN. Instead she just seems to want him to stop embarrassing her. This is *Rodney*, yes, he has an ego, but also, he has that tone he gets when it's all going to hell, when he says we really shouldn't do it and that's when you know you'd better listen cause otherwise the UNIVERSE could be destroyed (or maybe you'll get lucky and it's just the city blowing up...) He's in charge of science on Atlantis, he's saved the day oh so many times. She *knows* this, but still doesn't back him up there.

You mention it coming across like a crush. And that's exactly how it plays to me. Like a high school crush, where they view each other from afar, go "oh, pretty," and when they hook up, realize there's absolutely no substance to their relationship and move on. Except they're not in HS and they've known each other quite some time but aren't moving on, just stumbling awkwardly forward.

*ack* Oh god, sorry for the rant! It's just....the relationship seems so high school from start to finish and the fact they're putting so much screen time into it when there's so little of the show left just frustrates me. *sigh* Ah well...*goes back to huggling my shiny new NCIS. While the fandom's not so large, at least the show is happy-making, and just seems to be getting better...* Oh SGA, as you say, why must we fight? Ah well, there's always all the wondrous, glorious (often better written than canon :-p) fic! ^_-

WARNING: Possibly Incoherent Rambling Ahead

On Keller, at least for this episode, I'm going to have to disagree. I think she acted just like any one of Rodney's friends would I think would, including John. She teased Rodney, tried to reel him in from an embarrassing social situation (and I think it was for his sake, not hers). The more I think about it, the more I see that scene where Rodney's standing up in front of the crowd as her trying to shush him, possibly for Stargate secrecy reasons, but also because she can see it's not going to work. It never really come across to me as nagging or "trying to change Rodney", it's one thing to tell someone to try to act humble, to try and reign in their bad behavior in public. His team does to him all the time, so I really don't see her behavior as the problem.

Past that she keeps stating how much she finds the subject deathly dull. Physics, y'know, Rodney's greatest passion, holds not a single lick of interest for her.

I don't know... I find that a little unfair. Nobody loves physics as much as Rodney, with the possible exception of Sam, Zelenka, and Bill Nye the Science Guy.

Of course she'd be bored there, Ronon/Teyla/John/Woolsey/Carson/Amelia/Torren/Lorne/Elizabeth would be bored too. (Todd wouldn't be bored, but that's because Todd would be at a physicist buffet. The smart ones always taste better.) Any one of them would find the physics boring, they would needle Rodney about it, because if the situation were reversed, Rodney would probably be just as snarky to them at a Satedan Art Lesson/Athosian Harvest Festival/Surfing Contest/Paper Pusher Secret Society Meeting/Medical Conference/Gate Techs Anonymous/Pre-School/Gun Show/Linguistics Lecture.

Except here, no doubts, not even a single raised eye-brow that she's possibly young enough to be his daughter...)

You know, maybe that's the problem here. It's not that she is so younger, it's that it's just ignored, glossed over so they don't have to worry about addressing it (and here is where I'm going to sound like I hate the pairing/Keller, when that's note really the case):

It seems to me that they've taken a lot of shortcuts in this relationship, and sometimes decisions with Keller's character, and I think it's possibly because they're hypersensitive to criticism of her? A lot of fans had dismissed her before she even showed up, in places/ways that JM and company were sure to see. I can understand the knee jerk reaction that we're all insane for judging something we haven't seen. Fans rarely come across as the most rational of people

But it almost feels... I swear, and this is more with the pairing, it feels like they're ignoring addressing any potential pitfalls, as if they're afraid that they address them the fans will latch on and use that as support for their dislike of it. And of course, some would. That's the nature of fanning. But it's frustrating to me, as someone who actually saw potential back at the end of season four for a romantic relationship between these characters to be treated so... what is the word I'm looking for here? I don't know. I gagged a tiny bit at the callback, but understood that was my issue. A lot of people enjoyed it. I know why I disliked it for numerous reasons, but had grudgingly resigned myself to the fact that it was canon. (Just like sadly, somehow "Irresponsible", and "Travelers", and "Whispers" is canon.)

But somewhere, for me, it crossed the line from sappy to squirm-inducing, and I think it was near the very end of the airplane scene. Someone once mentioned to me that reading the Twilight books felt like reading someone's sexual fantasies -- and that's how the end of that scene felt to me. I'm afraid (really afraid) that I'm going to have to watch it again, because now I'm morbidly curious if it was the suggestion of sex so soon that bothered me, or the way they suggested it that bothered me.

(It was the Mile High Club part that really tipped me over into rant mode. I did enjoy most of the episode, even if I haven't really squeed about it yet.)

I might get long-winded as well, apologies in advance...

I think she acted just like any one of Rodney's friends would I think would, including John.

See, here I'm gonna have to disagree with your disagree. For a couple of reasons. First, though the other's all often tease Rodney about his modesty, or lack there of, I can't remember times they actually order him to tone it back and truly expect him to do so (I could be misremembering). I see a difference between teasing, if it's with the intent of hoping the person will get a clue and better themselves, and actually requesting and expecting the person to do it.

Second, with Keller, I have the added problem because she *WASN'T* there in the capacity of a friend, but supposedly on a first date. When I friend asks to you to tone it down, or teases you about your shortcomings, it's a suggestion. But when a date/potential lover does it, it becomes more than a suggestion, adding the implicit understanding "make these changes or lose the chance for nookie/an on-going relationship". And Rodney responds to it as such. When his other friends (including Teyla, Elizabeth and even Sam, so it's not just a male/female thing) tease him about his short-comings, he usually responds with snark, or just simply ignores them. But with Keller, he meekly tries to obey. He's acting differently with her, because she isn't just a friend, he's looking for something more. So when she keeps nagging/mocking him into change, and instead of responding like the arrogant, self-assured Rodney McKay we know, he keeps caving, it makes me cringe.

Third, I really REALLY don't agree with the idea that the rest of the team would have just rolled over when Rodney stood up and went, NO this is a really baaaad idea. Rodney gets that tone, and they listen. As recent as Prodigal, when Rodney tells John to stop, strange readings, and he immediately *does*, as do all the Marines. Except Lorne, who got the warning a little too late. Poor Lorne *smishes him*. And, seriously, if the writers HAD put John or Teyla or Ronon in Keller's place and they'd done the same thing, telling Rodney to sit back down when he's saying No, this is DANGEROUS, instead of say, calling the SGC, or making enough of a fuss that they had to be escorted out under guards or what not, then believe me, I'd be just as pissed at them and the writers.

Rodney's in a room, surrounded by peers that don't truly respect him, as she's already born witness. She's the ONLY one that knows what he does, how he's helped *save the galaxy*, how he's done more brilliant things than they can hope to dream of, but he can't tell any of them. She's the only one who knows he's had experience with this before and instead of support him in the face of everyone's ignorance, she tells him to back down. And she's WRONG. DEAD WRONG! The idiot almost destroys the planet, not to mention get them all killed, and if she had encouraged Rodney to stand his ground, argue it out with them, if she'd had faith in her "twoo wuv", then they all might have been spared the whole ordeal.

Of course she'd be bored there, Ronon/Teyla/John/Woolsey/Carson/Amelia/Torren/Lorne/Elizabeth would be bored too.

This one I didn't explain as well as I should of. It's not that I expect her to love physics as much as he does. Very few can (though it is one of the things that always made me think Rodney and Sam were rather adorable together, really). More, the point I was trying to make is that we know what they DON'T have in common, the medicine and physics, but they've never shown anything they DO share. When John and Rodney hang out together, we know, we SEE what they have in common, *why* they like to hang out together. Ditto with Rodney and Zelenka or Rodney and Sam (in both cases, they both love their physics oh so much). Other than that, apart from work, we don't see Rodney hanging out with many others. Except with Keller. But unlike the former, we are never given any indication of WHY they like hanging out together. What draws them together?

it's that it's just ignored, glossed over so they don't have to worry about addressing it

See, that's what's been getting me so much about Keller's character: so much of it is glossed over. They seem to dismiss any actual development, particularly flaws, in favor of going "look, look JEWEL STAITE!!" And that's the thing that's boggling my mind. You say a lot of people were against her from the beginning. Now maybe it's just the particular people on my flist (I have a LOT of fans of Firefly there) but I saw a lot more worry over Sam than of Keller at the beginning. Except for the people that were adamantly against anything not Carson, most people I saw were excited by the addition of Jewel to the cast. I know I was. It's been her development, or lack there of, the "everybody just loves her, no one ever questions her", the glossing over of any potential flaws that has actually had me liking her less and less (I have a half-written essay on the idea of characters being added late in the game *needing* to be questioned and doubted by the already-established characters so that, in winning them over, they too win over the audience, but have never gotten around to finishing it). They gloss over pretty much all of Keller's flaws, especially any potential flaws in her romances and in doing so, I think it weakens the characters and relationships, rather than strengthening them. If you present a flaw, you can address it, over come it. Ignore it, and you sway dangerously into "oh-so-perfect Mary-Sue" territory.

I did enjoy most of the episode, even if I haven't really squeed about it yet.)

See, and for me, part of the problem with the poorly-written romance is that it just was the final nail in the coffin for an ep I really just *did not* like. Mainly cause it felt like one big, gigantic OOC-fest. For more details, check out

xparrot's post on it, but, at the heart of it, as I crazy Rodney fan, I spent most of the ep going, "but where's the Rodney I love?!"

...and that question, I think, is where some of my fundamental problem's with the McKeller come in. Repeatedly the one thing (basically the ONLY thing) they've shown us that Keller is attracted to, in terms of Rodney, is when he's being all sweet/woobie-tastic. And while I do enjoy Rodney like that, so much of what I love about Rodney *is* his arrogance, his supreme confidence, and his amazing intelligence and competence that can actually back up his ego. She wants him to "be humble" and I want to slap her and go "no BITCH, his arrogance his HOT and oh yeah, HE'S RIGHT!!!!!" When Rodney's being all egotistical and he's wrong, I do cringe for him some, but more often than not, he has the know how to back up his ego, and I just find that supreme confidence a turn on. Competence is SEXY. Keller seems deadest on taking away many of the characteristics that most draw me to Rodney, that make him the character I adore and this episode, more than any other, highlighted that fact for me.

....Ooops. So so sorry about length. The Keller/ McKeller thing has just been driving me INSANE, fueled more so when I see other female characters/relationships I do like (hello NCIS, *snuggles it*). As I said before, I love Jewel Staite, or did. I'm disliking Keller enough that I worry about how I'll feel next time I rewatch Firefly, and Rodney had made it on my favorite characters of all time list, and yet, the McKeller is making me start to GROAN when Rodney comes on screen, if it's in connection with Keller, and the way he acts around her makes me truly *dislike* the character. I just think it takes some writing talent, of the VERY NEGATIVE variety, to do that to actors/characters I like. :-p (and there I go again, okay, stopping now. Really. Really I will. Sorry if I'm harshing on some of your squee, McKeller/show wise, really don't wanna do that. I just really need to put SGA canon behind me, I think, and wallow is some good fic. You guys all right it better, anways! :-p) * big huggles*

You say a lot of people were against her from the beginning. Now maybe it's just the particular people on my flist (I have a LOT of fans of Firefly there) but I saw a lot more worry over Sam than of Keller at the beginning. Except for the people that were adamantly against anything not Carson, most people I saw were excited by the addition of Jewel to the cast. I know I was.

I think it's definitely a difference in the groups we were hanging out with at the time. Up until late last year most of my fandom interaction had been limited to one mailing list hosted on Yahoo Groups, and people there... well, there was a lot of teeth gnashing over Sam, and there was a lot of the Carson backlash too (oh my, was there!), but there were a lot of people that I don't think fit either camp that were already judging the character before she even made it to screen. I mean, I could go track down the original conversations, but they gave me a headache to start with. It was basically knocking at everything from Jewel Staite's age to calling her a Mary Sue before she even made it screen. So, in that way, I've been a little predisposed to be protective of a character that I felt got a raw deal from fandom from the start. (Which I think more relates to my only attempt to join the SG-1 fandom as a Jonas fan during season six. It... kind of ruined a lot of the show for me.)

Of course, that particular mailing list has gotten progressively nastier and more negative to the point where I don't even post there anymore. Which is sad, because they were the ones that really got me writing in this fandom in the first place.

They gloss over pretty much all of Keller's flaws, especially any potential flaws in her romances and in doing so, I think it weakens the characters and relationships, rather than strengthening them. If you present a flaw, you can address it, over come it. Ignore it, and you sway dangerously into "oh-so-perfect Mary-Sue" territory.

This, I can't argue with one bit. I think I was saying to

xparrot a while back is that I've filled in a lot of the blanks with Keller, so the glossing doesn't really bother me like it normally would--but that's not to say it's good writing, because it so isn't. And while the lack of addressing the character's personal flaws I found occasionally annoying, I found the whitewashing in the "romance" full-blown irritating. I mean I tried, I really tried to make things make sense in my head with what I knew of the characters, provide valid reasoning for XYZ so that the end of "The Shrine" didn't ruin a squeetastic episode for me... and then this. Rargh.

See, and for me, part of the problem with the poorly-written romance is that it just was the final nail in the coffin for an ep I really just *did not* like.

I think the Martin Gero interview did it for me. I can't even think about this episode now without getting irrationally angry. Which is really stupid, because it's just a television show. Oh, he set me off but good. Those things I was still okay with last week? Kind of buried under a big pile of disdain right now. I'm not sure if I can ever watch this episode again, and will have a really hard time accepting it as canon.

Eek! Sorry for like the, week-long delay in replying. I got caught up in Flashfic and holidays

Lol, no problems. So totally understand how that goes. I'm notoriously bad about responding to things...especially e-mail ^_-

So the whole pre-disposed to defend Keller totally makes sense. And I think that's the reverse that happened to me. I, and a lot of people on my flist, were just optimistic/enthusiastic to have Jewel Staite on board, so when the character failed to deliver, we were disappointed. That disappointment just heightened our negative feelings towards her. Coming from a defense position totally makes you view a character differently. I've been there myself in the past on occasion.

think the Martin Gero interview did it for me. I can't even think about this episode now without getting irrationally angry. Which is really stupid, because it's just a television show.

First off, yeah, see neechan's response on the Gero interview for how I feel. We were SEETHING. As to getting irrationally angry over TV...*shifty guilty eyes* Um...yeaaaah, you should have SEEN/HEARD the rants going on here. (They get even louder when there's two of you to bounce the rage off of). Course, after Smallville, we have LOTS of practice :-p. Though at least with SV, we knew going in that the show was gonna drive us up a wall. With SGA, it feels much more like a betrayal. This was my happy place, dammit!!

I mean, I was seriously depressed months ago that my show was ending. Now I'm just wanting them to not kill my squee in the last three episodes with this ridiculous hack writing.

That is the EXACT way I'm feeling about it right now. Just...if we can get through these last four eps, we can look past it, to the much much happier place that is fandom. Neechan and my solution currently is to poor our canon love into NCIS, which the show is making us terribly happy right now, but has very little fandom to speak of, and continue to dedicate our fandom love to SGA, whose fandom continues to impress in volume, quality, and squee .

So the whole pre-disposed to defend Keller totally makes sense.

Come to think of it, it probably explains a lot of my feelings on her character. I've got this thing for the underdog, and Keller has always been one in my eyes from a fandom perspective. Despite that, I don't think I was expecting much, but I really did warm to her character after "Trio" last year, and it helped me appreciate earlier episodes where I had only been so-so with her. But I can definitely see it from the other side, having much higher expectations and getting something that was completely different.

We were SEETHING.

I'm really glad I'm not the only one that got so angry reading that. I think, were it his normal asshattery I would have been annoyed, but I think combined with not only the implication that Rodney considers his team less important than a badly written love story, plus that people need to have this sexual romantic love, and those who don't... urgh! Push-button, much?

With SGA, it feels much more like a betrayal.

Exactly! It's not that it's a horrible romance that I would be embarrassed to watch with other people (okay, it is that at this point), but the fact that it was SGA, and it made me more than just gag, but it made me angry. Partly because of the content, and the maybe-unintentional implications above (that I'm starting to suspect may not have been unintentional at all), but also because I know they're capable of so much more if the writers actually give it some sort of effort. I've been disappointed before in episodes (see: Irresponsible, The Real World, Travelers) and OOC moments, but this one seriously pushed my buttons.

This was my happy place, dammit!!

I know! I've had everyone coming up to me, because they know I love the show going "Bill Nye was on! BILL NYE! :D" and I practically snarl back, "Bill Nye can't make up for the concussion I got FROM THAT ROMANTIC ANVIL ENDING!" and they sort of back away slowly. (Mental Note: I need to not talk about this episode with non-fen.)

I'm really hoping for a good one this week, because my faith in the Everlasting Squee has been severely shaken.

...well...after neechan writes me that Tony!whump fic...there are certain itches that need at least a little scratching...^_-.

Hrm. I agree. I think she should do it (despite my Austin Powers melodrama earlier.)

And have you ventured out much into the fic world yet? There were some really brilliant Tony!whump fic I read a few years back that I could highly recommend.

Squee, I'd love some Tony!whump recs. I've ventured a bit into the fic realm, but I've discovered that after SV and SGA, I've been totally spoiled by the level of fic quality and have become rather picky...oops :-p

Richefic (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/374030/Richefic) has a mix of longer and short stories, with fairly even characterizations. Really likes to put poor Tony through the ringer.

Kikkimax (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/617175/kikkimax) does I think mostly Kate-era stories. Long, plotty, with a good Abby-Kate friendship, oh, and Tony whump ;) "The Jagged Heart" and "Angels and Heroes" are the ones I've read, and they were very good.

Lady Anne (http://k.domaindlx.com/LdyAnne/RR.htm#NCIS) (who you might recognize from some SGA stuff) has a few NCIS stories worth checking out.

And finally, Sequitur (http://www.fanfiction.net/~sequitur), possibly ~~one of~~ the best NCIS authors I've run across. For short and cute, "Found in Translation" is very amusing, but "Rictus", a story where Tony and Gibbs meet, is a-maze-ing.

(And that's all I can remember for now, there are more, but I haven't had my coffee yet ;)

Keller seems deadest on taking away many of the characteristics that most draw me to Rodney, that make him the character I adore and this episode, more than any other, highlighted that fact for me.

At the risk of sounding... I don't know, I think this might actually be more where personal biases come in. I'm not predisposed to dislike Keller, so I didn't see her actions as negative or trying to change him--

--what the hell am I doing? I officially hate this episode now, why am I trying to defend it even a little bit? I retract above statement. No one in this episode acted like themself, Keller or Rodney.

Sorry if I'm harshing on some of your squee, McKeller/show wise, really don't wanna do that.

Oh no, god no. I would have to have really, really, really wanted a hookup for squee to be harshed. Besides, I think Martin Gero's asinine comments in that interview just sank any chance for me to have a happy, positive feeling about a relationship that I could only care about if it was written... well, basically the exact opposite of the way it has been.

I just really need to put SGA canon behind me, I think, and wallow is some good fic. You guys all right it better, anways! :-p) * big huggles*

I can't believe it, but I might actually be at this point as well. I mean, I was seriously depressed months ago that my show was ending. Now I'm just wanting them to not kill my squee in the last three episodes with this ridiculous hack writing.

Like a high school crush, where they view each other from afar, go "oh, pretty," and when they hook up, realize there's absolutely no substance to their relationship and move on.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if this strange "from afar" thing is because they're both socially inept. At least, it would make sense from what we know of both of the characters. (Oh, I know what you're going to say, I already know it ;) I mean, Keller never had a normal high school life, she never had peers her age, so I almost wonder if maybe this is just as awkward for her as it is for Rodney.

just stumbling awkwardly forward

See, if they were actually written as stumbling awkwardly forward, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I would find it believable, and probably endearing. But it's only awkward and uncomfortable for me as a viewer to see them suddenly get over all of their hangups in a matter of hours and act like they've been dating for months.

and the fact they're putting so much screen time into it when there's so little of the show left just frustrates me

Oh, I know. And I hate to defend them since they managed to push me into rant mode... but I think had they actually known 100% for sure that they weren't going to get renewed, we'd probably have more team focused episodes. They're not trying to do this to us intentionally (although sometimes I wonder)... it's just sort of happening that way.

But I still love the show! Hopefully we won't fight next week.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The Stargate Romance Rant... it's been brewing for a while now.

no subject

Part One... (I got long winded.)

Re: Part One... (I got long winded.)

Re: Part One... (My part 2...I got long-winded as well...OOps! :-P)

I DID IT AGAIN (part one)

Re: I DID IT AGAIN (part one)

Re: I DID IT AGAIN (part one)

Re: I DID IT AGAIN (part one)

Re: I DID IT AGAIN (part one)

I DID IT AGAIN (part two)

Part Two