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The Stargate Romance Rant... it's been brewing for a while now.
SGA. I love you.
I really do.
I love your teaminess, your crackiness, I adore your snark. I love seeing Bill Nye the Science Guy acting like Rodney, and Rodney the mighty lumberjack as he breaks down a door to be Mr. Hero. I really do.
But we have a problem here.
You suck at (intentional) romance.
You really suck at it, and I've been able to turn a blind eye up to this point. So, while I did enjoy 90% of "Brain Storm" and would have made a happy post o' squee... you're going to make me rant. Because I've been holding it in since "The Shrine".
Okay, see, I enjoyed this episode right up until the very end. I really did. I handwaved the science, and I enjoyed Rodney and Keller's interactions, so I was ready to give them a "Woohoo! You finally figured out how to do roman--DEAR GOD NO! NO! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME?" So, uh, despite my intentions to make a squeeful post about every episode... this one's not going to be so much. I do have squee for the episode, I did enjoy it, but the end... sorry guys, I gotta rant.
I really don't mind the idea of McKay/Keller. I really don't. While I prefer that he be single canonically, mostly for selfish ficcing purposes as I've explained to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
xparrot, I don't mind the idea of him and Keller together. I like her character for the most part, and in theory, it's cute. It's the execution on the show that I'm having problems with.
In theory, I'm not opposed to McKay/Keller. (I aslo hate portmanteus, so I'm going to avoid them for this post.) I think she's a much better match for him than Katie. She seems to actually understand that Rodney is Rodney, and just isn't "having a grumpy day" like I got the impression of Katie in "Quarantine" (and on that ntoe: WTF writers?) She's someone who looks like she'll allow Rodney to be himself, but try to encourage him to tone down other aspects of his personality. I think the "Kinder, Gentler Rodney McKay" is something that's in his mind, and I think she'd probably smack him upside the head if she realized that he was trying to dumb himself down for her.
- Kind of like John... Honestly, I saw a lot of parallels with her and John in this episode... you probably could have switched them out and not had to change the lines much. Which is, uh, strange. And off topic. And right, I'm supposed to be getting to my rant.
Back on topic, I liked the fact that at the end, Rodney even told her "Screw this! It does matter to me!", because that's our Rodney right there.
But...
I really, really, really, really, REALLY hated the last few seconds of "The Shrine". And I hated the call back to it in this episode just that much more. To break it down:
ONE
Now, I'm sure some people did, and power to them, but there was absolutely no way in the world I can find it cute, flattering, or even the tiniest bit romantic that someone who is mentally regressing to tell me that he loves me. I would find it creepy. And insulting. And there are a lot of reasons why, but it boils down to the fact that it's not really that person telling me that. Part of a person is not a whole person. To me, that basically said, "Part of me loves you. But whole me doesn't."
Yes, yes, I know what they were trying to say is that Rodney with all of his walls and his social awkwardness couldn't say it. (Possibly because the relationship hadn't progressed to the point of LOVE DECLARATIONS? Oh wait, that's point two.) That's not what it said to me though. It basically said to me, "We the writers have absolutely no clue what's romantic, but we think the chicks would dig this, because I think I saw it in a sappy romantic movie my wife/girlfriend/significant other dragged me to once. And she cried, so I guess it worked then."
Of course, I don't cry or get all emotional in most chick flick movies either, so my opinion might not really count here.
TWO
"I've loved you... I have for some time now."
O RLY? YOU HAVE? "FOR SOME TIME NOW"?
Where is my onscreen evidence of this? Where the hell is my build up? Where is the indication that Rodney and Keller hang out and enjoy each other's company before all of this? Where is the indication that they're close friends to where this statement might make one lick of sense? Did it all happen off screen? Maybe it could have. Maybe there was an indication on both sides that things were building up to this point--
McKAY: Jennifer, we practically dated.
KELLER: You bought me one drink! That's hardly dating!
McKAY: Right, so, well now I'm asking you to have dinner with me -- I mean ... (he brandishes the pot again, smiling at her) ... such as it is.
Oh, wait -- there wasn't. In the same fricking episode as mine most hated statement. I can buy, maybe, and that's if you liquor me up a little, that Rodney has fallen for her over the course of "The Shrine" and possibly since "Trio". But... "for some time now"? That's not some time. That's hardly any time.
This statement does not work in real life, hell, this doesn't work in well written television life unless you're in the seventh grade and you're asking out the popular girl you've been oggling all year long in homeroom class. People who have real relationships don't suddenly love someone without a reason. Especially love they've had for a long time now but they've been secretly harborinng. I belive in adult world, we call that a crush. Crushes ≠ Love. Crushes = Crushes.
I really don't mind Rodney and Keller declaring their love for each other, but for the love of the freaking Ori, can you please show me how we get from a beer after "Trio" to TRUE WUB in "The Shrine". I mean, I don't need huge acts of enormity, I just need... actual scenes together? Where they enjoy each other's company. And if we are going to be all trite and have huge sweeping, awkwardly written declarations of love, can we please have our characters be mentally whole and sound while doing so?
THREE
Ah, thecliched classic "callback line". Which works about half the time. (Usually it works better if it made more sense on the first round.) We do have the benefit that they've had more screen time together, and seem to enjoy each other's company. So, character-wise, it can work. It might even work for me if it wasn't so badly written if I didn't hate the original so much.
All right, I'll just be honest here. My pipe dream was that they'd deal with that stupid line properly in the "That was horribly awkward, made me uncomfortable when you said it, but I do have feelings for you" kind of way. Since I know them, and that they thought that was the love declaration for the ages, I was more hoping against hope they'd forget to even address the stupid thing. That way, I could be 100% canon compliant when I wrote things, I could have that as an issue that Rodney and Keller would work through in their relationship, rather than be the foundation for it.
Brain damaged love declarations as the foundation of a relationship. Seriously. SRSLY?
I know it was supposed to be sweet and cute. But for me, it really wasn't.
FOUR
WE LOVE EACH OTHER. LET'S HAVE SEX.
No, no, let's not date each other, make sure we're on the same page, put some emotional foundation on this relationship as we transition from friends to something more. Let's just get down to the part that apparently really matters. We could wait and possibly act like normal people who might have an awkward transition phase, we have a private jet plane now, and we've always wanted to get on the Mile High Club.
I hate it in fanfic, I hate it in shows. A friendship is a relationship. It matters. And it matters that you're going to be friends after you resolve your UST. (That I don't really see, but I don't see it 90% of the time, so my opinion... probably don't count much.) Friends who start to date each other I would expect in most cases would, even if they've wanted to for a while and yearned for it, be terrified and horribly awkward about it.
But then Martin Gero couldn't live out his fantasies vicariously through his writing.
FIVE
This one is all me here, I'll admit. The age thing seriously, seriously is bothering me more than I thought it would (when they start suggesting sexual acts. (I blamedovil's "Creepy Uncle Rodney" rant from last season.) Them kissing is kind of cute, but the thought of something more starts to wig me out. Can we have a statement that Keller is at least thirty? Plz? Because for some reason, fifteenish age year difference really squicks me more than a ten year gap.
On a side note, why can't I think of her as Jennifer in my mind?
In conclusion: I love you show. Why do we have to fight?
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, maybe I can make my regular post o' squee in a little bit. Also! I need to make a birthday post o' squee, because I got presents! :D
I really do.
I love your teaminess, your crackiness, I adore your snark. I love seeing Bill Nye the Science Guy acting like Rodney, and Rodney the mighty lumberjack as he breaks down a door to be Mr. Hero. I really do.
But we have a problem here.
You suck at (intentional) romance.
You really suck at it, and I've been able to turn a blind eye up to this point. So, while I did enjoy 90% of "Brain Storm" and would have made a happy post o' squee... you're going to make me rant. Because I've been holding it in since "The Shrine".
Okay, see, I enjoyed this episode right up until the very end. I really did. I handwaved the science, and I enjoyed Rodney and Keller's interactions, so I was ready to give them a "Woohoo! You finally figured out how to do roman--DEAR GOD NO! NO! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME?" So, uh, despite my intentions to make a squeeful post about every episode... this one's not going to be so much. I do have squee for the episode, I did enjoy it, but the end... sorry guys, I gotta rant.
I really don't mind the idea of McKay/Keller. I really don't. While I prefer that he be single canonically, mostly for selfish ficcing purposes as I've explained to
xparrot, I don't mind the idea of him and Keller together. I like her character for the most part, and in theory, it's cute. It's the execution on the show that I'm having problems with.In theory, I'm not opposed to McKay/Keller. (I aslo hate portmanteus, so I'm going to avoid them for this post.) I think she's a much better match for him than Katie. She seems to actually understand that Rodney is Rodney, and just isn't "having a grumpy day" like I got the impression of Katie in "Quarantine" (and on that ntoe: WTF writers?) She's someone who looks like she'll allow Rodney to be himself, but try to encourage him to tone down other aspects of his personality. I think the "Kinder, Gentler Rodney McKay" is something that's in his mind, and I think she'd probably smack him upside the head if she realized that he was trying to dumb himself down for her.
- Kind of like John... Honestly, I saw a lot of parallels with her and John in this episode... you probably could have switched them out and not had to change the lines much. Which is, uh, strange. And off topic. And right, I'm supposed to be getting to my rant.
Back on topic, I liked the fact that at the end, Rodney even told her "Screw this! It does matter to me!", because that's our Rodney right there.
But...
I really, really, really, really, REALLY hated the last few seconds of "The Shrine". And I hated the call back to it in this episode just that much more. To break it down:
Now, I'm sure some people did, and power to them, but there was absolutely no way in the world I can find it cute, flattering, or even the tiniest bit romantic that someone who is mentally regressing to tell me that he loves me. I would find it creepy. And insulting. And there are a lot of reasons why, but it boils down to the fact that it's not really that person telling me that. Part of a person is not a whole person. To me, that basically said, "Part of me loves you. But whole me doesn't."
Yes, yes, I know what they were trying to say is that Rodney with all of his walls and his social awkwardness couldn't say it. (Possibly because the relationship hadn't progressed to the point of LOVE DECLARATIONS? Oh wait, that's point two.) That's not what it said to me though. It basically said to me, "We the writers have absolutely no clue what's romantic, but we think the chicks would dig this, because I think I saw it in a sappy romantic movie my wife/girlfriend/significant other dragged me to once. And she cried, so I guess it worked then."
Of course, I don't cry or get all emotional in most chick flick movies either, so my opinion might not really count here.
"I've loved you... I have for some time now."
O RLY? YOU HAVE? "FOR SOME TIME NOW"?
Where is my onscreen evidence of this? Where the hell is my build up? Where is the indication that Rodney and Keller hang out and enjoy each other's company before all of this? Where is the indication that they're close friends to where this statement might make one lick of sense? Did it all happen off screen? Maybe it could have. Maybe there was an indication on both sides that things were building up to this point--
McKAY: Jennifer, we practically dated.
KELLER: You bought me one drink! That's hardly dating!
McKAY: Right, so, well now I'm asking you to have dinner with me -- I mean ... (he brandishes the pot again, smiling at her) ... such as it is.
Oh, wait -- there wasn't. In the same fricking episode as mine most hated statement. I can buy, maybe, and that's if you liquor me up a little, that Rodney has fallen for her over the course of "The Shrine" and possibly since "Trio". But... "for some time now"? That's not some time. That's hardly any time.
This statement does not work in real life, hell, this doesn't work in well written television life unless you're in the seventh grade and you're asking out the popular girl you've been oggling all year long in homeroom class. People who have real relationships don't suddenly love someone without a reason. Especially love they've had for a long time now but they've been secretly harborinng. I belive in adult world, we call that a crush. Crushes ≠ Love. Crushes = Crushes.
I really don't mind Rodney and Keller declaring their love for each other, but for the love of the freaking Ori, can you please show me how we get from a beer after "Trio" to TRUE WUB in "The Shrine". I mean, I don't need huge acts of enormity, I just need... actual scenes together? Where they enjoy each other's company. And if we are going to be all trite and have huge sweeping, awkwardly written declarations of love, can we please have our characters be mentally whole and sound while doing so?
Ah, the
All right, I'll just be honest here. My pipe dream was that they'd deal with that stupid line properly in the "That was horribly awkward, made me uncomfortable when you said it, but I do have feelings for you" kind of way. Since I know them, and that they thought that was the love declaration for the ages, I was more hoping against hope they'd forget to even address the stupid thing. That way, I could be 100% canon compliant when I wrote things, I could have that as an issue that Rodney and Keller would work through in their relationship, rather than be the foundation for it.
Brain damaged love declarations as the foundation of a relationship. Seriously. SRSLY?
I know it was supposed to be sweet and cute. But for me, it really wasn't.
WE LOVE EACH OTHER. LET'S HAVE SEX.
No, no, let's not date each other, make sure we're on the same page, put some emotional foundation on this relationship as we transition from friends to something more. Let's just get down to the part that apparently really matters. We could wait and possibly act like normal people who might have an awkward transition phase, we have a private jet plane now, and we've always wanted to get on the Mile High Club.
I hate it in fanfic, I hate it in shows. A friendship is a relationship. It matters. And it matters that you're going to be friends after you resolve your UST. (That I don't really see, but I don't see it 90% of the time, so my opinion... probably don't count much.) Friends who start to date each other I would expect in most cases would, even if they've wanted to for a while and yearned for it, be terrified and horribly awkward about it.
This one is all me here, I'll admit. The age thing seriously, seriously is bothering me more than I thought it would (when they start suggesting sexual acts. (I blame
dovil's "Creepy Uncle Rodney" rant from last season.) Them kissing is kind of cute, but the thought of something more starts to wig me out. Can we have a statement that Keller is at least thirty? Plz? Because for some reason, fifteenish age year difference really squicks me more than a ten year gap.On a side note, why can't I think of her as Jennifer in my mind?
In conclusion: I love you show. Why do we have to fight?
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, maybe I can make my regular post o' squee in a little bit. Also! I need to make a birthday post o' squee, because I got presents! :D
Re: Part One... (I got long winded.)
I think she acted just like any one of Rodney's friends would I think would, including John.
See, here I'm gonna have to disagree with your disagree. For a couple of reasons. First, though the other's all often tease Rodney about his modesty, or lack there of, I can't remember times they actually order him to tone it back and truly expect him to do so (I could be misremembering). I see a difference between teasing, if it's with the intent of hoping the person will get a clue and better themselves, and actually requesting and expecting the person to do it.
Second, with Keller, I have the added problem because she *WASN'T* there in the capacity of a friend, but supposedly on a first date. When I friend asks to you to tone it down, or teases you about your shortcomings, it's a suggestion. But when a date/potential lover does it, it becomes more than a suggestion, adding the implicit understanding "make these changes or lose the chance for nookie/an on-going relationship". And Rodney responds to it as such. When his other friends (including Teyla, Elizabeth and even Sam, so it's not just a male/female thing) tease him about his short-comings, he usually responds with snark, or just simply ignores them. But with Keller, he meekly tries to obey. He's acting differently with her, because she isn't just a friend, he's looking for something more. So when she keeps nagging/mocking him into change, and instead of responding like the arrogant, self-assured Rodney McKay we know, he keeps caving, it makes me cringe.
Third, I really REALLY don't agree with the idea that the rest of the team would have just rolled over when Rodney stood up and went, NO this is a really baaaad idea. Rodney gets that tone, and they listen. As recent as Prodigal, when Rodney tells John to stop, strange readings, and he immediately *does*, as do all the Marines. Except Lorne, who got the warning a little too late. Poor Lorne *smishes him*. And, seriously, if the writers HAD put John or Teyla or Ronon in Keller's place and they'd done the same thing, telling Rodney to sit back down when he's saying No, this is DANGEROUS, instead of say, calling the SGC, or making enough of a fuss that they had to be escorted out under guards or what not, then believe me, I'd be just as pissed at them and the writers.
Rodney's in a room, surrounded by peers that don't truly respect him, as she's already born witness. She's the ONLY one that knows what he does, how he's helped *save the galaxy*, how he's done more brilliant things than they can hope to dream of, but he can't tell any of them. She's the only one who knows he's had experience with this before and instead of support him in the face of everyone's ignorance, she tells him to back down. And she's WRONG. DEAD WRONG! The idiot almost destroys the planet, not to mention get them all killed, and if she had encouraged Rodney to stand his ground, argue it out with them, if she'd had faith in her "twoo wuv", then they all might have been spared the whole ordeal.
Of course she'd be bored there, Ronon/Teyla/John/Woolsey/Carson/Amelia/Torren/Lorne/Elizabeth would be bored too.
This one I didn't explain as well as I should of. It's not that I expect her to love physics as much as he does. Very few can (though it is one of the things that always made me think Rodney and Sam were rather adorable together, really). More, the point I was trying to make is that we know what they DON'T have in common, the medicine and physics, but they've never shown anything they DO share. When John and Rodney hang out together, we know, we SEE what they have in common, *why* they like to hang out together. Ditto with Rodney and Zelenka or Rodney and Sam (in both cases, they both love their physics oh so much). Other than that, apart from work, we don't see Rodney hanging out with many others. Except with Keller. But unlike the former, we are never given any indication of WHY they like hanging out together. What draws them together?