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The Stargate Romance Rant... it's been brewing for a while now.
SGA. I love you.
I really do.
I love your teaminess, your crackiness, I adore your snark. I love seeing Bill Nye the Science Guy acting like Rodney, and Rodney the mighty lumberjack as he breaks down a door to be Mr. Hero. I really do.
But we have a problem here.
You suck at (intentional) romance.
You really suck at it, and I've been able to turn a blind eye up to this point. So, while I did enjoy 90% of "Brain Storm" and would have made a happy post o' squee... you're going to make me rant. Because I've been holding it in since "The Shrine".
Okay, see, I enjoyed this episode right up until the very end. I really did. I handwaved the science, and I enjoyed Rodney and Keller's interactions, so I was ready to give them a "Woohoo! You finally figured out how to do roman--DEAR GOD NO! NO! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME?" So, uh, despite my intentions to make a squeeful post about every episode... this one's not going to be so much. I do have squee for the episode, I did enjoy it, but the end... sorry guys, I gotta rant.
I really don't mind the idea of McKay/Keller. I really don't. While I prefer that he be single canonically, mostly for selfish ficcing purposes as I've explained to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
xparrot, I don't mind the idea of him and Keller together. I like her character for the most part, and in theory, it's cute. It's the execution on the show that I'm having problems with.
In theory, I'm not opposed to McKay/Keller. (I aslo hate portmanteus, so I'm going to avoid them for this post.) I think she's a much better match for him than Katie. She seems to actually understand that Rodney is Rodney, and just isn't "having a grumpy day" like I got the impression of Katie in "Quarantine" (and on that ntoe: WTF writers?) She's someone who looks like she'll allow Rodney to be himself, but try to encourage him to tone down other aspects of his personality. I think the "Kinder, Gentler Rodney McKay" is something that's in his mind, and I think she'd probably smack him upside the head if she realized that he was trying to dumb himself down for her.
- Kind of like John... Honestly, I saw a lot of parallels with her and John in this episode... you probably could have switched them out and not had to change the lines much. Which is, uh, strange. And off topic. And right, I'm supposed to be getting to my rant.
Back on topic, I liked the fact that at the end, Rodney even told her "Screw this! It does matter to me!", because that's our Rodney right there.
But...
I really, really, really, really, REALLY hated the last few seconds of "The Shrine". And I hated the call back to it in this episode just that much more. To break it down:
ONE
Now, I'm sure some people did, and power to them, but there was absolutely no way in the world I can find it cute, flattering, or even the tiniest bit romantic that someone who is mentally regressing to tell me that he loves me. I would find it creepy. And insulting. And there are a lot of reasons why, but it boils down to the fact that it's not really that person telling me that. Part of a person is not a whole person. To me, that basically said, "Part of me loves you. But whole me doesn't."
Yes, yes, I know what they were trying to say is that Rodney with all of his walls and his social awkwardness couldn't say it. (Possibly because the relationship hadn't progressed to the point of LOVE DECLARATIONS? Oh wait, that's point two.) That's not what it said to me though. It basically said to me, "We the writers have absolutely no clue what's romantic, but we think the chicks would dig this, because I think I saw it in a sappy romantic movie my wife/girlfriend/significant other dragged me to once. And she cried, so I guess it worked then."
Of course, I don't cry or get all emotional in most chick flick movies either, so my opinion might not really count here.
TWO
"I've loved you... I have for some time now."
O RLY? YOU HAVE? "FOR SOME TIME NOW"?
Where is my onscreen evidence of this? Where the hell is my build up? Where is the indication that Rodney and Keller hang out and enjoy each other's company before all of this? Where is the indication that they're close friends to where this statement might make one lick of sense? Did it all happen off screen? Maybe it could have. Maybe there was an indication on both sides that things were building up to this point--
McKAY: Jennifer, we practically dated.
KELLER: You bought me one drink! That's hardly dating!
McKAY: Right, so, well now I'm asking you to have dinner with me -- I mean ... (he brandishes the pot again, smiling at her) ... such as it is.
Oh, wait -- there wasn't. In the same fricking episode as mine most hated statement. I can buy, maybe, and that's if you liquor me up a little, that Rodney has fallen for her over the course of "The Shrine" and possibly since "Trio". But... "for some time now"? That's not some time. That's hardly any time.
This statement does not work in real life, hell, this doesn't work in well written television life unless you're in the seventh grade and you're asking out the popular girl you've been oggling all year long in homeroom class. People who have real relationships don't suddenly love someone without a reason. Especially love they've had for a long time now but they've been secretly harborinng. I belive in adult world, we call that a crush. Crushes ≠ Love. Crushes = Crushes.
I really don't mind Rodney and Keller declaring their love for each other, but for the love of the freaking Ori, can you please show me how we get from a beer after "Trio" to TRUE WUB in "The Shrine". I mean, I don't need huge acts of enormity, I just need... actual scenes together? Where they enjoy each other's company. And if we are going to be all trite and have huge sweeping, awkwardly written declarations of love, can we please have our characters be mentally whole and sound while doing so?
THREE
Ah, thecliched classic "callback line". Which works about half the time. (Usually it works better if it made more sense on the first round.) We do have the benefit that they've had more screen time together, and seem to enjoy each other's company. So, character-wise, it can work. It might even work for me if it wasn't so badly written if I didn't hate the original so much.
All right, I'll just be honest here. My pipe dream was that they'd deal with that stupid line properly in the "That was horribly awkward, made me uncomfortable when you said it, but I do have feelings for you" kind of way. Since I know them, and that they thought that was the love declaration for the ages, I was more hoping against hope they'd forget to even address the stupid thing. That way, I could be 100% canon compliant when I wrote things, I could have that as an issue that Rodney and Keller would work through in their relationship, rather than be the foundation for it.
Brain damaged love declarations as the foundation of a relationship. Seriously. SRSLY?
I know it was supposed to be sweet and cute. But for me, it really wasn't.
FOUR
WE LOVE EACH OTHER. LET'S HAVE SEX.
No, no, let's not date each other, make sure we're on the same page, put some emotional foundation on this relationship as we transition from friends to something more. Let's just get down to the part that apparently really matters. We could wait and possibly act like normal people who might have an awkward transition phase, we have a private jet plane now, and we've always wanted to get on the Mile High Club.
I hate it in fanfic, I hate it in shows. A friendship is a relationship. It matters. And it matters that you're going to be friends after you resolve your UST. (That I don't really see, but I don't see it 90% of the time, so my opinion... probably don't count much.) Friends who start to date each other I would expect in most cases would, even if they've wanted to for a while and yearned for it, be terrified and horribly awkward about it.
But then Martin Gero couldn't live out his fantasies vicariously through his writing.
FIVE
This one is all me here, I'll admit. The age thing seriously, seriously is bothering me more than I thought it would (when they start suggesting sexual acts. (I blamedovil's "Creepy Uncle Rodney" rant from last season.) Them kissing is kind of cute, but the thought of something more starts to wig me out. Can we have a statement that Keller is at least thirty? Plz? Because for some reason, fifteenish age year difference really squicks me more than a ten year gap.
On a side note, why can't I think of her as Jennifer in my mind?
In conclusion: I love you show. Why do we have to fight?
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, maybe I can make my regular post o' squee in a little bit. Also! I need to make a birthday post o' squee, because I got presents! :D
I really do.
I love your teaminess, your crackiness, I adore your snark. I love seeing Bill Nye the Science Guy acting like Rodney, and Rodney the mighty lumberjack as he breaks down a door to be Mr. Hero. I really do.
But we have a problem here.
You suck at (intentional) romance.
You really suck at it, and I've been able to turn a blind eye up to this point. So, while I did enjoy 90% of "Brain Storm" and would have made a happy post o' squee... you're going to make me rant. Because I've been holding it in since "The Shrine".
Okay, see, I enjoyed this episode right up until the very end. I really did. I handwaved the science, and I enjoyed Rodney and Keller's interactions, so I was ready to give them a "Woohoo! You finally figured out how to do roman--DEAR GOD NO! NO! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME?" So, uh, despite my intentions to make a squeeful post about every episode... this one's not going to be so much. I do have squee for the episode, I did enjoy it, but the end... sorry guys, I gotta rant.
I really don't mind the idea of McKay/Keller. I really don't. While I prefer that he be single canonically, mostly for selfish ficcing purposes as I've explained to
xparrot, I don't mind the idea of him and Keller together. I like her character for the most part, and in theory, it's cute. It's the execution on the show that I'm having problems with.In theory, I'm not opposed to McKay/Keller. (I aslo hate portmanteus, so I'm going to avoid them for this post.) I think she's a much better match for him than Katie. She seems to actually understand that Rodney is Rodney, and just isn't "having a grumpy day" like I got the impression of Katie in "Quarantine" (and on that ntoe: WTF writers?) She's someone who looks like she'll allow Rodney to be himself, but try to encourage him to tone down other aspects of his personality. I think the "Kinder, Gentler Rodney McKay" is something that's in his mind, and I think she'd probably smack him upside the head if she realized that he was trying to dumb himself down for her.
- Kind of like John... Honestly, I saw a lot of parallels with her and John in this episode... you probably could have switched them out and not had to change the lines much. Which is, uh, strange. And off topic. And right, I'm supposed to be getting to my rant.
Back on topic, I liked the fact that at the end, Rodney even told her "Screw this! It does matter to me!", because that's our Rodney right there.
But...
I really, really, really, really, REALLY hated the last few seconds of "The Shrine". And I hated the call back to it in this episode just that much more. To break it down:
Now, I'm sure some people did, and power to them, but there was absolutely no way in the world I can find it cute, flattering, or even the tiniest bit romantic that someone who is mentally regressing to tell me that he loves me. I would find it creepy. And insulting. And there are a lot of reasons why, but it boils down to the fact that it's not really that person telling me that. Part of a person is not a whole person. To me, that basically said, "Part of me loves you. But whole me doesn't."
Yes, yes, I know what they were trying to say is that Rodney with all of his walls and his social awkwardness couldn't say it. (Possibly because the relationship hadn't progressed to the point of LOVE DECLARATIONS? Oh wait, that's point two.) That's not what it said to me though. It basically said to me, "We the writers have absolutely no clue what's romantic, but we think the chicks would dig this, because I think I saw it in a sappy romantic movie my wife/girlfriend/significant other dragged me to once. And she cried, so I guess it worked then."
Of course, I don't cry or get all emotional in most chick flick movies either, so my opinion might not really count here.
"I've loved you... I have for some time now."
O RLY? YOU HAVE? "FOR SOME TIME NOW"?
Where is my onscreen evidence of this? Where the hell is my build up? Where is the indication that Rodney and Keller hang out and enjoy each other's company before all of this? Where is the indication that they're close friends to where this statement might make one lick of sense? Did it all happen off screen? Maybe it could have. Maybe there was an indication on both sides that things were building up to this point--
McKAY: Jennifer, we practically dated.
KELLER: You bought me one drink! That's hardly dating!
McKAY: Right, so, well now I'm asking you to have dinner with me -- I mean ... (he brandishes the pot again, smiling at her) ... such as it is.
Oh, wait -- there wasn't. In the same fricking episode as mine most hated statement. I can buy, maybe, and that's if you liquor me up a little, that Rodney has fallen for her over the course of "The Shrine" and possibly since "Trio". But... "for some time now"? That's not some time. That's hardly any time.
This statement does not work in real life, hell, this doesn't work in well written television life unless you're in the seventh grade and you're asking out the popular girl you've been oggling all year long in homeroom class. People who have real relationships don't suddenly love someone without a reason. Especially love they've had for a long time now but they've been secretly harborinng. I belive in adult world, we call that a crush. Crushes ≠ Love. Crushes = Crushes.
I really don't mind Rodney and Keller declaring their love for each other, but for the love of the freaking Ori, can you please show me how we get from a beer after "Trio" to TRUE WUB in "The Shrine". I mean, I don't need huge acts of enormity, I just need... actual scenes together? Where they enjoy each other's company. And if we are going to be all trite and have huge sweeping, awkwardly written declarations of love, can we please have our characters be mentally whole and sound while doing so?
Ah, the
All right, I'll just be honest here. My pipe dream was that they'd deal with that stupid line properly in the "That was horribly awkward, made me uncomfortable when you said it, but I do have feelings for you" kind of way. Since I know them, and that they thought that was the love declaration for the ages, I was more hoping against hope they'd forget to even address the stupid thing. That way, I could be 100% canon compliant when I wrote things, I could have that as an issue that Rodney and Keller would work through in their relationship, rather than be the foundation for it.
Brain damaged love declarations as the foundation of a relationship. Seriously. SRSLY?
I know it was supposed to be sweet and cute. But for me, it really wasn't.
WE LOVE EACH OTHER. LET'S HAVE SEX.
No, no, let's not date each other, make sure we're on the same page, put some emotional foundation on this relationship as we transition from friends to something more. Let's just get down to the part that apparently really matters. We could wait and possibly act like normal people who might have an awkward transition phase, we have a private jet plane now, and we've always wanted to get on the Mile High Club.
I hate it in fanfic, I hate it in shows. A friendship is a relationship. It matters. And it matters that you're going to be friends after you resolve your UST. (That I don't really see, but I don't see it 90% of the time, so my opinion... probably don't count much.) Friends who start to date each other I would expect in most cases would, even if they've wanted to for a while and yearned for it, be terrified and horribly awkward about it.
This one is all me here, I'll admit. The age thing seriously, seriously is bothering me more than I thought it would (when they start suggesting sexual acts. (I blame
dovil's "Creepy Uncle Rodney" rant from last season.) Them kissing is kind of cute, but the thought of something more starts to wig me out. Can we have a statement that Keller is at least thirty? Plz? Because for some reason, fifteenish age year difference really squicks me more than a ten year gap.On a side note, why can't I think of her as Jennifer in my mind?
In conclusion: I love you show. Why do we have to fight?
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, maybe I can make my regular post o' squee in a little bit. Also! I need to make a birthday post o' squee, because I got presents! :D
no subject
No, the episode wasn't all bad! It was actually enjoyable except for some parts. (What is with Gero and his bad jokes? I mean there's bad, groan-inducing and "...dude, that was not cool.") Rodney looked very dashing in his tux -- not so unlike a Canadian James Bond. All he needed was a martini! (That he would choke on, and promptly put down and try to wave off like he'd meant to do that all along.)
and I still see zilch McKeller (I second your point 1-5)
See, the thing is I can see it, and I did see it. I can still see it even. But the love confessions and the airplane scene pinged seriously OOC for me. Actually, as I've been typing and snipping my long rambly replies, trying to explain exactly why it does... I think I've found the simplest way to explain why the love confessions are so damn awkward and just unbelievable. Actually, it's a common affliction in Sci-Fi Media in general--
The Dreaded George Lucas Love Confession (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GeorgeLucasLoveStory).
Seriously, this is like Attack of the Clones, where the "I love you" is so out-of-the-blue and "Uh... where the hell did that come from? And isn't that basically the exact opposite of what you said a few minutes ago?" that you wonder if someone did a Jedi Mind Trick (but forgot to do so on the viewing audience. Stupid little details.) It's not that it's unbelievable that the characters would say it, it's unbelievable the characters would say it then, and in the manner that they do.
Could Padme in fact love Anakin as they're going out to die on Planet XYZ? Sure she can. But will she say it, looking deeply and soulfully in his eyes, without any of the eloquence we've come to associate with the character? Not really.
It's not a perfect example... but it's the best I have at the moment.
ETA: Missing words and VERY IMPORTANTTM link.
no subject
*screams with laughter* Thank you for that link. ( Bwhahahaah.).
Can we send it to Martin Gero please? Because he is ecstatic about the Love Confession on the plane. Best thing he's ever written! (http://stargate.mgm.com/news_detail.php?id=117http://stargate.mgm.com/news_detail.php?id=117) Apparently [quote] "For five years, we didn’t even know it, but all Rodney wanted was for someone to tell him that they loved him in an unconditional way." [unquote]
Yes. Plane sex is unconditional love. And Rodney's team and Elizabeth never loved Rodney unconditionally, they only ever wanted him for his
bodybrains.Aha.
no subject
Beware of TVTropes.com, it is very addictive, and you can lose hours of your life there without realizing it XD
Best thing he's ever written!
Wow... way to not prove me wrong about your creepy obsession with Jewel Staite, Gero. I believe my Sim relationship with him just dropped into the red after reading that.
Yes. Plane sex is unconditional love. And Rodney's team and Elizabeth never loved Rodney unconditionally, they only ever wanted him for his
bodybrains....
...
...you know what? Screw being nice. He brought this on himself.
But you see, their love was conditional. The condition was "no sex", and I can see how a man who has always found the meaning in his life through his accomplishments and later saving millions of lives would find that an unbearable way to live. Certainly it was no way to be loved. Visibly, it left him an empty shell of a man. I mean, the original ending in "Tao of Rodney", as he's on his death bed after he utters the line "You love me?", was followed up with the question, "Does this mean I get one last blowjob before I ascend?" And there was a resounding, "hell no!" from everyone, and then Rodney turned all glowy and said, "Screw you guys, I'm going home!" and floated off to go find his one true love who didn't put conditions on their feelings, and would make him feel as good on the outside as
he/sheshe did on the inside.And for some bizarre reason, MGM/NBC/Sci-Fi didn't think that would fly with audiences, so instead Rodney decides to accept his team's oh-so-conditional-with-strings-attached-love and stayed on this mortal plane of existence. But secretly he was waiting. For that one
orgasmpersonlove that would make him whole, complete. That would validate his existence as a human being and fill his empty shell with a warm glow that he could never attain from ascension.Luckily, Martin Gero saw his plight and gave him use of a private jet in "Brain Storm" and lobotomized another character in order for Rodney to reach his full potential. At ten thousand feet no less. Oh, and Keller was there too.