The Stargate Romance Rant... it's been brewing for a while now.

[greyias]

SGA. I love you.

I really do.

I love your teaminess, your crackiness, I adore your snark. I love seeing Bill Nye the Science Guy acting like Rodney, and Rodney the mighty lumberjack as he breaks down a door to be Mr. Hero. I really do.

But we have a problem here.

You suck at (intentional) romance.

You really suck at it, and I've been able to turn a blind eye up to this point. So, while I did enjoy 90% of "Brain Storm" and would have made a happy post o' squee... you're going to make me rant. Because I've been holding it in since "The Shrine".

Okay, see, I enjoyed this episode right up until the very end. I really did. I handwaved the science, and I enjoyed Rodney and Keller's interactions, so I was ready to give them a "Woohoo! You finally figured out how to do roman--DEAR GOD NO! NO! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME?" So, uh, despite my intentions to make a squeeful post about every episode... this one's not going to be so much. I do have squee for the episode, I did enjoy it, but the end... sorry guys, I gotta rant.

I really don't mind the idea of McKay/Keller. I really don't. While I prefer that he be single canonically, mostly for selfish ficcing purposes as I've explained to xparrot, I don't mind the idea of him and Keller together. I like her character for the most part, and in theory, it's cute. It's the execution on the show that I'm having problems with.

In theory, I'm not opposed to McKay/Keller. (I aslo hate portmanteus, so I'm going to avoid them for this post.) I think she's a much better match for him than Katie. She seems to actually understand that Rodney is Rodney, and just isn't "having a grumpy day" like I got the impression of Katie in "Quarantine" (and on that ntoe: WTF writers?) She's someone who looks like she'll allow Rodney to be himself, but try to encourage him to tone down other aspects of his personality. I think the "Kinder, Gentler Rodney McKay" is something that's in his mind, and I think she'd probably smack him upside the head if she realized that he was trying to dumb himself down for her.

OFF TOPIC SIDETRAIN - Kind of like John... Honestly, I saw a lot of parallels with her and John in this episode... you probably could have switched them out and not had to change the lines much. Which is, uh, strange. And off topic. And right, I'm supposed to be getting to my rant.

Back on topic, I liked the fact that at the end, Rodney even told her "Screw this! It does matter to me!", because that's our Rodney right there.

But...

I really, really, really, really, REALLY hated the last few seconds of "The Shrine". And I hated the call back to it in this episode just that much more. To break it down:

ONE
Now, I'm sure some people did, and power to them, but there was absolutely no way in the world I can find it cute, flattering, or even the tiniest bit romantic that someone who is mentally regressing to tell me that he loves me. I would find it creepy. And insulting. And there are a lot of reasons why, but it boils down to the fact that it's not really that person telling me that. Part of a person is not a whole person. To me, that basically said, "Part of me loves you. But whole me doesn't."

Yes, yes, I know what they were trying to say is that Rodney with all of his walls and his social awkwardness couldn't say it. (Possibly because the relationship hadn't progressed to the point of LOVE DECLARATIONS? Oh wait, that's point two.) That's not what it said to me though. It basically said to me, "We the writers have absolutely no clue what's romantic, but we think the chicks would dig this, because I think I saw it in a sappy romantic movie my wife/girlfriend/significant other dragged me to once. And she cried, so I guess it worked then."

Of course, I don't cry or get all emotional in most chick flick movies either, so my opinion might not really count here.


TWO
"I've loved you... I have for some time now."

O RLY? YOU HAVE? "FOR SOME TIME NOW"?

Where is my onscreen evidence of this? Where the hell is my build up? Where is the indication that Rodney and Keller hang out and enjoy each other's company before all of this? Where is the indication that they're close friends to where this statement might make one lick of sense? Did it all happen off screen? Maybe it could have. Maybe there was an indication on both sides that things were building up to this point--

McKAY: Jennifer, we practically dated.

KELLER: You bought me one drink! That's hardly dating!

McKAY: Right, so, well now I'm asking you to have dinner with me -- I mean ... (he brandishes the pot again, smiling at her) ... such as it is.

Oh, wait -- there wasn't. In the same fricking episode as mine most hated statement. I can buy, maybe, and that's if you liquor me up a little, that Rodney has fallen for her over the course of "The Shrine" and possibly since "Trio". But... "for some time now"? That's not some time. That's hardly any time.

This statement does not work in real life, hell, this doesn't work in well written television life unless you're in the seventh grade and you're asking out the popular girl you've been oggling all year long in homeroom class. People who have real relationships don't suddenly love someone without a reason. Especially love they've had for a long time now but they've been secretly harborinng. I belive in adult world, we call that a crush. Crushes ≠ Love. Crushes = Crushes.

I really don't mind Rodney and Keller declaring their love for each other, but for the love of the freaking Ori, can you please show me how we get from a beer after "Trio" to TRUE WUB in "The Shrine". I mean, I don't need huge acts of enormity, I just need... actual scenes together? Where they enjoy each other's company. And if we are going to be all trite and have huge sweeping, awkwardly written declarations of love, can we please have our characters be mentally whole and sound while doing so?

THREE
Ah, the cliched classic "callback line". Which works about half the time. (Usually it works better if it made more sense on the first round.) We do have the benefit that they've had more screen time together, and seem to enjoy each other's company. So, character-wise, it can work. It might even work for me if it wasn't so badly written if I didn't hate the original so much.

All right, I'll just be honest here. My pipe dream was that they'd deal with that stupid line properly in the "That was horribly awkward, made me uncomfortable when you said it, but I do have feelings for you" kind of way. Since I know them, and that they thought that was the love declaration for the ages, I was more hoping against hope they'd forget to even address the stupid thing. That way, I could be 100% canon compliant when I wrote things, I could have that as an issue that Rodney and Keller would work through in their relationship, rather than be the foundation for it.

Brain damaged love declarations as the foundation of a relationship. Seriously. SRSLY?

I know it was supposed to be sweet and cute. But for me, it really wasn't.


FOUR
WE LOVE EACH OTHER. LET'S HAVE SEX.

No, no, let's not date each other, make sure we're on the same page, put some emotional foundation on this relationship as we transition from friends to something more. Let's just get down to the part that apparently really matters. We could wait and possibly act like normal people who might have an awkward transition phase, we have a private jet plane now, and we've always wanted to get on the Mile High Club.

I hate it in fanfic, I hate it in shows. A friendship is a relationship. It matters. And it matters that you're going to be friends after you resolve your UST. (That I don't really see, but I don't see it 90% of the time, so my opinion... probably don't count much.) Friends who start to date each other I would expect in most cases would, even if they've wanted to for a while and yearned for it, be terrified and horribly awkward about it.

But then Martin Gero couldn't live out his fantasies vicariously through his writing.


FIVE
This one is all me here, I'll admit. The age thing seriously, seriously is bothering me more than I thought it would (when they start suggesting sexual acts. (I blame dovil's "Creepy Uncle Rodney" rant from last season.) Them kissing is kind of cute, but the thought of something more starts to wig me out. Can we have a statement that Keller is at least thirty? Plz? Because for some reason, fifteenish age year difference really squicks me more than a ten year gap.

On a side note, why can't I think of her as Jennifer in my mind?

In conclusion: I love you show. Why do we have to fight?

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, maybe I can make my regular post o' squee in a little bit. Also! I need to make a birthday post o' squee, because I got presents! :D

Comments

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

A friendship is a relationship. It matters. And it matters that you're going to be friends after you resolve your UST. (

Agreed on most points. Agreed on this one, too, but wanted to make special mention of it because it seems to be a trend found in other SG romances - the idea that friendship and romance are mutually exclusive. Rodney & Keller can't be friends, because then they wouldn't be romantic. Sam & Jack are a couple but Daniel is Jack's best friend, because Sam couldn't possibly be. Rodney/Katie, Teyla/Kanaan, Ronon/Keller - there's never any relationship shown between them except the romantic. There's never any bonding over mutual interests or hobbies; there's no real conversations about their relationship, about what they are to each other, what they see in each other, just love confessions/rejections.

Actually, I don't know if this is about romance, or rather the belief that men and women completely lack the grounds to be friends, and can only ever relate to one another romantically. Either way, I kinda wonder about what kind of relationships the SGA writers have with the women in their lives...

[greyias.livejournal.com]

Sam & Jack are a couple but Daniel is Jack's best friend, because Sam couldn't possibly be.

Maybe there-in lies the problem. I have no problem with romance itself, but I'm not going to feel it or believe it if the people don't seem to like each other as people, rather than lust for each other. I think there are plenty of shows that show this well, how friends can transition to romance, but still be friends. It just baffles me why this seems to be an issue with the SG writers. Is it the "Big Damn Heroes" and the "Big Damn Sci-Fi/Action Show" mindset? If they get too mushy will all the college boys get turned off?

Actually, I don't know if this is about romance, or rather the belief that men and women completely lack the grounds to be friends, and can only ever relate to one another romantically.

It almost seems like that... but then you do have Teyla interacting with her teammates in a non-romantic manner. She and Rodney don't interact much, but when they do it's more like siblings than anything resembling UST. She and Ronon are so very much brother and sister (rolling her eyes at him at the beginning of "Progeny" for some reason cracks me up to this very day.) I really don't see anything romantic between her and John either, just two very close friends.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Hmm, agreed that there are platonic m-f friendships - few of them are played as strong as the m-m friendships (there's definitely more John-Rodney than Teyla-anyone, and I think there's more Ronon-John than Ronon-Teyla...) But then there's more m-f friendships than f-f friendship, definitely, so, yeah, SGA can do men and women being friends.

But friends aren't romantic, ever; there's this huge line drawn between friendship and romance. And friendship usually comes out on top - see "The Shrine" - as the more significant relationship, which maybe is why the writers are so bad at romance, because they don't actually think romance is that important? As long as you're getting sex, who cares if there's a real relationship there? Something like that? Hmm...

[greyias.livejournal.com]

But then there's more m-f friendships than f-f friendship, definitely, so, yeah, SGA can do men and women being friends.

Point. They can do it, and they do do it, but they don't do it equally. I mean, I love that they do the John-Rodney stuff so well, but I wouldn't be horribly opposed to more Teyla-Ronon buddy scenes too.

But friends aren't romantic, ever; there's this huge line drawn between friendship and romance.

Point to you again. I honestly, honestly cannot think of a single instance to refute this point, especially on SGA. It seemed like they were trying to skirt that line a little in season two with both Teyla and Elizabeth with John, but the romantic/UST stuff always came off rather forced to me -- but their scenes where they weren't trying to do a "Will they? Won't they?" vibe worked well. (I'm really channeling "Long Goodbye" in this example, but I know there's another instance.) It seemed though they almost dropped it in season three.

As long as you're getting sex, who cares if there's a real relationship there?

But of course :P

I'm starting to wonder if that's what really set me off about it, is that very end bit seemed to suggest that very attitude? I don't know, it was something because I'm practically a Squeeosaurus when it comes to SGA. I mean, I liked "Inquisition" for crying out loud, and just about no one liked "Inquisition".

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

To be fair, a lot of TV doesn't do m-f platonic friendship at all, so I like that SGA has some, even if not as much as m-m (and pretty much no f-f friendship, which makes me a sad panda). And yeah, John with Teyla and Elizabeth worked better when they dropped the UST, but even when it was there it was mostly so subtle you could ignore it; they almost never explicitly stated the UST.

But a lot of shows that have romantic relationships will show more than the sexual attraction; they'll show the characters bonding over other things, having fun together, talking, sharing interests. While as SG seems to find this part of romance so - boring, or something? - that it's unnecessary. So you get Sam/Jack, where the show repeatedly makes the point that they have pretty much nothing in common, and that's supposed to make the romance cute or something. And now Rodney & Keller should have more in common than that, both being super-intelligent geeks, but the show almost goes out of its way not to give us anything. Keller doesn't like physics, Rodney doesn't like medicine (though he pretends to around her) - and we've been given nothing else. They both like beer?

I think this is why Keller nagging Rodney set me off. John snipes at Rodney in public too (though I can't recall him ever telling Rodney to be humble or tone it down, except in professional situations where Rodney's mouth could get them killed.) But we know John likes Rodney otherwise; we've seen them having fun together, and Rodney is assured enough of their friendship that he'll snark back to John. But this was Rodney & Keller's first date, and we haven't seen them interacting off-hours, so the sniping didn't have that base of solid affection. Certainly Rodney didn't think there was; he meekly folds under Keller's berating, like he doesn't to John's.

[greyias.livejournal.com]

BAHAHA, your icon!

(and pretty much no f-f friendship, which makes me a sad panda).

Sam and Teyla need girl time too! ;_; I gave them the points for effort in that one episode of SG-1 with Sam and Vala's girl time, even though it came off a little more like a guy's idea of female bonding than actual female bonding.

But a lot of shows that have romantic relationships will show more than the sexual attraction; they'll show the characters bonding over other things, having fun together, talking, sharing interests. While as SG seems to find this part of romance so - boring, or something? - that it's unnecessary.

This is so very true. I'm not exactly a romantic at heart, but I do find myself enjoying those shows where the characters act like real people who have something in common more than the bedroom time. The thing I like about shows like Chuck, the OC, and Big Bang Theory is that while the romance is intended, the actual tangible relationship between the characters -- not just the "romance" -- is explored. It's not always buddy-buddy friendship, but it's not some weird strict division of labor between friendship and romance.

And now Rodney & Keller should have more in common than that, both being super-intelligent geeks, but the show almost goes out of its way not to give us anything. Keller doesn't like physics, Rodney doesn't like medicine (though he pretends to around her) - and we've been given nothing else. They both like beer?

Beer is good. But yeah, they really haven't given us anything -- I think a lot of it is based on extrapolation. If, sometime in the far future where I can forgive the relationship for being conceived by Martin Gero (I really need to get over that), and wanted to write something in which their "relationship" is addressed -- I would have to dig deep and do a lot of sorting in my mind to make it work within the mental framework I have of the characters. Normally, I'm okay with this--but right now I just can't be bothered.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I am astonished by how much I enjoy the romance of Big Bang Theory! I recently got into that, and yeah - I adore Penny, and even though she and Leonard probably are incompatible, I don't really mind their UST. Which says a lot, considering how much UST can grate on me. But yes, it helps that it's a real relationship beyond the UST - it helps, too, that Penny is a fully developed character; she's a believable human being, and she has relationships that aren't about romance (Penny + Sheldon is some of the funniest stuff of the show! They really need to take over the world together.)

That's one of the nice things about getting into NCIS now, too, there's female characters that I really like, on their own and in relation to the other characters. Heck, at this point I'm so fond of all the relationships that they could probably make a 'ship among any of the mains, and I wouldn't freak out...

...Geeze. SGA is just bad at writing female characters. I keep thinking that I've got some weird misogynist tendencies, and then I watch all these shows where I love the girls...it's not me, SGA, it's you! (Though they are dynamite at picking incredibly charismatic, likable actresses...I love Sam at least 70% because of Amanda Tapping, and Rachel Luttrell makes Teyla. I feel sorry for Jewel Staite, she's awesome and she deserves better than this!)

But yeah, they really haven't given us anything -- I think a lot of it is based on extrapolation.

As far as I can tell, even the folks who do like McKeller more like it for the potential (Rodney finally getting married like he thinks he wants) than what we've actually seen...because we've seen so little. And yeah, sometimes I'm willing to fill in the details, but this 'ship has been such an ill-conceived hack-job that I'm just gonna skip it. XP

Martin Gero is a moron!

[greyias.livejournal.com]

I recently got into that, and yeah - I adore Penny, and even though she and Leonard probably are incompatible, I don't really mind their UST. Which says a lot, considering how much UST can grate on me.

I think what I liked about it, is that it's not what I normally consider UST. For a long time, it's very one-sided romantically, completely on Leonard's end. And usually, that really grates on me, but it's just so well done! It definitely helps that they show that Leonard is aware that his attraction is unlikely to lead anywhere, and acknowledges that at times it's borderline creepy (and then has him back off). But he still tries, despite the differences and the odds stacked against them, because he seems to genuinely like her as a person, not just because she's a pretty girl. (I'm not sure if you guys are completely caught up, so I don't want to venture into any spoiler territory.)

it helps, too, that Penny is a fully developed character; she's a believable human being, and she has relationships that aren't about romance

Oh, I adore Penny, and I wasn't sure if I would at first. She really is believable, and the writers have been awesome in making her avoid the oblivious-and-unintentionally-slightly-cruel-pretty-girl trap that seems to happen in the unrequited romances. She's smart, not in the scary smart way like the boys, but in her own way. But she doesn't (usually) let it intimidate her, and she also seems to enjoy their company, even joining in on the geeky fun.

(Penny + Sheldon is some of the funniest stuff of the show!

They make me snorfle SO LOUD. As I said earlier, I'm not sure how caught up you guys are, but there was an episode a few weeks ago that just about killed me ded. It's a toss-up to whether Penny or Sheldon is my favorite character, but their scenes together are usually my favorites.

They really need to take over the world together.)

BWAHA! YES! YES THEY DO!

That's one of the nice things about getting into NCIS now, too... they could probably make a 'ship among any of the mains, and I wouldn't freak out...

This is definitely a good year to get into it. I got addicted on the season two finale, and so have had to do the "wait and see" on where they're going with the characters. (I was really wary of Jenny and Ziva when they came in, but was completely in love with Ziva by the end of season three.) I don't think I ever really want any of the characters to hook up, mostly because I love how their relationships play out now. I've noticed that the tone of the show and the relationships have changed since Mark Harmon took lead of the show's direction, to this really nice "team as family" vibe they've been doing so well this season.

...Geeze. SGA is just bad at writing female characters.

I was going to argue with this, but I'm sort of grasping at straws. I think they have some really good moments in between some really mediocre to sometimes really bad writing. Poor Elizabeth was all over the map, Keller is a major point of contention in fandom right now, "Whispers" is another thing entirely, and I had a really hard time "getting" Teyla up until these past two seasons. But, one positive thing SGA did do was make me actively like Sam, rather than on SG-1 where I either passively liked her, or in some seasons/episodes, really resented her presence. (But I absolutely adored Vala, to the point where she replaced Daniel as my favorite character. So it could be limited to just SGA.)

As far as I can tell, even the folks who do like McKeller more like it for the potential

I've had a few people tell me that normally they don't like romance on the show, but they were really excited about this pairing and direction with the show. They did seem to really enjoy "Brain Storm", whereas it just pushed me over the edge from a vaguely hopeful apathy into actual disdain.

And yeah, sometimes I'm willing to fill in the details, but this 'ship has been such an ill-conceived hack-job that I'm just gonna skip it. XP

Capsized and has you scrambling for the lifeboats? (Or maybe that's just me.)

Martin Gero is a moron!

Thank you! It's amazing how saying that always seems to lower my blood pressure.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

We've seen all of BBT, so no fear of spoilers! And yes, yes, and joy, to everything you say. It's a sitcom, but they're all such real people (...a little too real, maybe. Most of their geek-fan conversations, I've had with my friends. Sometimes almost word-for-word, like when ranking the Star Trek movies. My one quibble with the show is that there are we female geeks out here - represent!)

& yeah, I didn't know if I'd like Penny, because she is so blonde, and the pretty sweet next-door neighbor is just so cliche - but she's so funny and awesome and as quirky as they are, in different ways (I love the utter disaster of her apartment. ...umm, again, because it's a little too familiar!) And she handles the boys so well - I really liked what happened with her and Leonard, that it didn't work because they are that different, but she really does care for him a lot as a friend. And then Leonard is such a nice guy - not a "nice guy" but the real deal (I'm way too fond of the poor boy, mostly because I feel sorry for him. Also because the glasses and the hoodies are too cute - actually of all the guys I've seen on TV, Leonard would probably be the one I'd like to date, he's rather my real-life type ^^) I'm happy he's found himself a girlfriend now, even if it might not work out, what with Sheldon's "help" (and I'm happy, too, that she looks like a real woman; she isn't Hollywood-perfect but she's still considered very attractive and that's just very, yay, show!)

But Sheldon! Is hysterical in so many ways! (and one lab accident away from being a supervillain! XDD) And seriously, he and Penny need to take over the world!! (The recent ep, where they're at war - SO AWESOME!)

--Ahh, I haven't bounced about BBT with anyone before, pardon my squee! We did amuse ourselves in "Brainstorm" (one of the few bright spots of the ep XP) imagining that Tunney had invited Sheldon, and Sheldon having the TOTAL MENTAL BREAKDOWN that the pseudoscience would induce in him (how bad is it that a sitcom has better science than a scifi show? But seriously, BBT scratches my technobabble itch even when SGA fails! ...yes, I have a technobabble kink so bad...)

So, yes, BBT = <3

And NCIS also = <333! Ahhh I adore Ziva - I liked her humor from the start but it took me 'til s4 to really fall in love with her (it was when she realized Tony was going to the hospital secretly, and started researching Y.Pestis 'cuz she was worried about him, so sweet!) Now that Jenny Shepard's gone I love everyone, makes it a fun show to watch. Especially with the family vibe! (That's the thing, the writers right now have been hitting so many buttons that I trust them - I don't *want* any actual 'shipping (I pretty much never want a romantic 'ship more than I want friendship!), but if for some reason they decided to step, say, the Tony/Ziva up a notch, I wouldn't flip out and kill people. Which, uh, can happen otherwise. But right now I'm very satisfied with the TEAM TEAM TEAM feel, and Gibbs's "kids" all running around being idiots together!)

And then, SGA - phooey, show! Look at all the fan-love I have to give, and you're depriving yourself of it! (stupid Gero XP) But Rodney and Team have my <333 now & always, whatever they do - I refuse to let The Man bring me down! (even if they do suck with female characters. Sometimes they do great but I swear it's by accident - well, except Teyla with Torren, I actually really love how they handled that storyline, from start to now. But otherwise, yeeeeeah, they're all over the place.)(I actually really liked Sam in later SG-1 - when the Sam/Jack stuff stopped and she was all team-y with the boys. And Vala! Is <333 too! She didn't quite replace Daniel as my fave, but it was close...actually Daniel/Vala is about the only SG pairing that hasn't made me want to tear out my hair, and then it...didn't work out. Or something. What the heck, show? How can you possibly be SO bad at this!?)

Oh well, I still <3 you anyway, SGA! Rodney forever! ^_^

[greyias.livejournal.com]

My one quibble with the show is that there are we female geeks out here - represent!

There are! But I kind of wonder if the boys wouldn't do the creepy fanboy-at-a-convention thing, where they find the geeky girl and just sort of stare at them. Kind of like having a double-X chromosome and walking into a comic store.

I'm happy he's found himself a girlfriend now... (and I'm happy, too, that she looks like a real woman

I was just thinking this yesterday XD I don't know how long she's going to last, but I really like her character -- quirky, and fun and likable, as opposed to Leslie Winkle (at least for me). I hope she sticks around for a little while longer. She definitely brings an interesting dynamic to the group.

(and one lab accident away from being a supervillain! XDD)

BEST. LINE. EVER. XD

The recent ep, where they're at war - SO AWESOME!

OMG YES! That was the one where I was puddle of laughter on the floor. "But secretly inside, you'll always know that laundry night... is Saturday night." With Leonard stuck in the middle, snickering a little whenever Penny one-ups Sheldon.

How bad is it that a sitcom has better science than a scifi show?

I heard that they employ a physicist to fact check all of their science and technobabble! While I think, and I mean this in all seriousness, I heard that the SGA writers use like Wikipedia to do theirs. Of course, BBT is a network show, so they can afford a little extra in that department.

(it was when she realized Tony was going to the hospital secretly, and started researching Y.Pestis 'cuz she was worried about him, so sweet!)

It was so cute! I really liked at how the end of the season where she's still concerned (her instincts were right on the money), and Ducky's trying to give her romantic counsel, she looks at him and tells him that her partner is in trouble, and it has nothing to do with romance. (Which I believed her, I thought she might have burgeoning feelings for Tony, but her concern seemed to be strictly about his welfare.)

Now that Jenny Shepard's gone I love everyone, makes it a fun show to watch.

I started to like Jenny at the end of season three, but that was pretty much obliterated in S4 with her Frog Hunt. But Vance! Oh! I love Vance so much! What is it about stuffy bureaucrats that make such likable, effective leaders?

they decided to step, say, the Tony/Ziva up a notch, I wouldn't flip out and kill people.

When I stop to think about it, I probably wouldn't stop watching the show if Tony and Ziva made a hookup, because I'd be interested to see what they did with it. I've rather enjoyed the pairings on the show, like Gibbs with his Army lieutenant, and Abby with her forensic buddy (his name is escaping me.) I do think, unless it was just knock-my-socks-awesome, I'd probably get less enjoyment just because I love their relationship so much as it is now.
but it would probably take my enjoyment of it down a few notches.

and Gibbs's "kids" all running around being idiots together!

Oh yes! The squabbling, the bickering, the jealousy when someone else gets the attention. The episode with their temporary newbie agent was so cute! Team ftw!

I actually really liked Sam in later SG-1 - when the Sam/Jack stuff stopped and she was all team-y with the boys

I think I probably enjoyed her more in the later seasons, I was really happy she came back during season nine, but there were moments of season ten that just really grated on me for some reason. I'm curious now, though, if I'll get the same reaction watching them after her stint on SGA. While I love Woolsey to death (obviously by the Crush Rating system), I really did come to enjoy her contribution to the show by the end of season four.

Daniel/Vala...and then it didn't work out....How can you possibly be SO bad at this!?

I don't know, because that was my exact reaction too! It's the only pairing I had ever sought out fic for, but that scene in "Unending" just made me go "...ick" from the extreme OOCness on both their parts. Of course, it was almost made up for by the cuteness of OldCouple!Daniel/Vala. But now I'd rather there not be any other canon pairing between the two, just because I don't trust them.