greyias | The Tracker, intial reaction

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The Tracker, intial reaction

Okay, I actually went into this episode expecting to come away disliking it. Simply put, spoilers are evil and can taint my views on something that I have no idea if it's going to happen.

The main thing that I was expecting, and thank god it did not happen (or at the very least was low key), was love triangles. It is possibly one of my biggest pet peeves in television, and fiction in general. Especially love triangles between friends. Perhaps it's my own past experiences tainting things, but usually it happens between three very good people, the two "made-for-each-other" end up together, and a third party gets really hurt, and the two people I'm supposed to like and be happy for I usually want to slap the living daylights out of. It's ruined several shows for me, and I was really scared it was going to harsh majorly on my SGA squee.

Thankfully, it hasn't happened (at least yet).

Happily, for me, this episode wasn't about Ronon and Rodney fighting for Keller's affections as they fight Wraith and Runners, but hey, about Keller being kidnapped, being a medical doctor with ethics and savvy, and kicking a little ass. It also had a B-plot with Rodney and Ronon running around the woods ~~looking hot~~, and, of course, Rodney being the biggest damsel-in-distress in the episode (which is so how it should be. Yay show! \o/ ) Love Rodney's girly "Hello Wraith! Easy prey found here!" scream, still looking away and firing wildly with his pistol, and for the most part not being an action hero, even when he is. I really did enjoy his and Ronon's B-plot (and the fact that it was the B-plot?), because we just don't see much of a shake-up outside of the John + Teammate pair up, and it was nice to see an offworld adventure that defied the norm. It wasn't the Ronon/Teyla buddy adventure I was hoping against hope for on the Improbable Wish List, but it was still great fun. (With swinging logs! And Runner-built bear traps! ♥!).

And I really liked Keller in this. Even if she was "kidnapped in the woods", she didn't play the damsel-in-distress (once again, oh, Rodney) she rescued herself, and had that same attitude and presence onscreen that made me really enjoy her part in "Trio". Of course, now I have really confused myself, because my reaction to her parts in season five has been all over the place. Serisouly, I have no clue, maybe some serious viewer issues going on or something. I enjoyed her in "Search and Rescue", was kind of blah about the poor girl in "The Seed", have extremely mixed reactions on her for "The Shrine", kind of wanted her to be quiet last week, and this week I'm wanting her autograph. So seriously, what is wrong with me? I'd like to blame it on the writing, but I honestly don't think that's it.

(There's more I've written that's now going to go into a follow-up meta post, because it has nothing to do with this episode.) (ETA: On second thought, it became a bit ranty, so it's going on the private filter now :)

So, in summary: Kick-ass Keller (plz stay, i♥u), Rodney screams like a little girl (♥), and his aim with a gun drastically improves when he's trying to save someone else (♥), Ronon=Survival Instructor (♥), Hot Runner Ver. 2.0 is hot and fun (♥), little girl wants Rodney ejected from the infirmary (♥).

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I'd like to blame it on the writing, but I honestly don't think that's it.

Actually, I'd say you have every right to, cause the writers don't really seem to be in agreement themselves about her character. Every writer has a totally different take on her, which leads to VERY mixed messages.

xparrot and I have probably spent waaaaaay too much time dissecting her character from every angle (have a LONG essay I'm debating actually putting up on the subject :-p) and the more you look at it, the more the writers seem to be in as much confusion, so...:-p

But Ronon/Rodney running around was truly love, ne? Not to mention HOT! Mmmmm...

I think the writing is a little to blame, but I can't be completely sure I'm not being influenced by outside forces, such as spoilers or the way the actors talk about their characters. Actually, I do think that last bit is something that influenced my general "ergh" feelings on her last season, because most of the initial interviews seemed fixated on who Keller would "hook up" with.

I'm finding that (with small exceptions), I really do like Jennifer Keller the character, who isn't quite comfortable in her skin but tries anyway. In fact, I even kind of like Jennifer Keller the character who might fall in love with someone, but I cannot help but be irked by Jennifer Keller the Love Interest... if that makes any sense?

have a LONG essay I'm debating actually putting up on the subject

I'll play Devil's Advocate and say "DO IT!" I love reading meta of that type!

Of course, I chickened out on posting my long-winded essay when it descended into sarcasm and general annoyance. I can't debate worth a flip, and I know that would wind up happening in the comments section. And then I would pout, which is very unbecoming.

But Ronon/Rodney running around was truly love, ne? Not to mention HOT! Mmmmm...

WORD to the N^th degree!

but I can't be completely sure I'm not being influenced by outside forces, such as spoilers or the way the actors talk about their characters.

I was definitely having a problem with that in this episode -- specifically an interview with Jason Momoa I'd read back at the start of the season where he talked about this episode and his character's relationships with Keller and Rodney. Knowing how he feels about the characters' relationships (he's very lukewarm on both of them), it's really hard not to see that when he plays out those on-screen connections.

Rodney as damsel-in-distress never gets old, though. XD

I really didn't like that interview with Jason Momoa at all, as it totally took the wind out of my sails. Honestly, I'm not sure if I was more taken off guard by his "Rodney and Ronon aren't friends" statement, or that he considered John to be closer to Ronon than Teyla. (I'm horribly attached to the Ronon/Teyla BFF concept, I admit.) It was almost as confusing and off-putting as Rodney's "best friend" declaration in "Sunday".

Thankfully, I'm not seeing it on screen like I was fearing. I think that's mostly due to a big case of denial ("Team is frendz!"), and the firm decision that while that's may be Jason's interpretation, I as a viewer can think that he's just wrong... until it somehow comes out in canon, then the Denial River just gets bigger.

Rodney as damsel-in-distress never gets old, though. XD

It really doesn't! XD I could probably have a whole trilogy of movies dealing with "Rodney as damsel-in-distress" and I'd still be a wiggly, happy, squee'ing thing. I'm just that easy.

Oh yes! That interview really colored my view on the Ronon/Keller ship. Unless of course Jason Momoa had instructions not to give it away and we just saw the greatest actor in the world in action in that interview. *g*

Let's just say, the final scene didn't squash my hope - I think Ronon and Jennifer are adorable together.

I blame the writers for inconsistencies in Keller's character.

Best moment for me: when Keller offers to put the defib paddles on Kiryk, Brilliant Husband said, "Because I've been experimenting with putting them in different places!" (harking back, of course, to defibrillating Sheppard's kidneys in "Doppelganger"), and I laughed so hard I might have missed a little dialogue.

My one complaint is that I think Ronon and Rodney are better friends than they showed last night, and I could do with seeing a little of that. My favorite line that did not come from BH was Rodney's "And you'll say, 'Good work,' or grunt, or slap me on the back unnecessarily hard."

I'm very happy with Keller being a competent and ethical doctor and saving her patients and doing better hand-to-hand than Rodney ever does!

I do know there are some inconsistencies with the character, and it is partly the writer's fault, but they don't just do it with Keller. They all have the tendency to use the characters to suit the plot, rather than let the characters guide the plot. Some writers are worse than others (*coughMallozziMullieGerocough*), and I know that they have to fit things into a short time frame, but still...

They do force things to happen with the characters rather than let them take a natural progress.

And you'll say, 'Good work,' or grunt, or slap me on the back unnecessarily hard."

Hee! That was awesome. I'm in the middle of rewatching the episode again, but the Ronon/Rodney interaction really isn't bothering me that much. I think it's because Ronon and Rodney don't quite get each other in the way the rest of the team does, so the expression of their friendship is a little more rough and tumble.

I'm very happy with Keller being a competent and ethical doctor and saving her patients and doing better hand-to-hand than Rodney ever does!

I find it hilarious, and yet appropriate that she would take to hand-to-hand better than Rodney. And I also like that she's competent, stands her ground for her patients, and still flinches away from danger. I really do like that as a touchstone.

They all have the tendency to use the characters to suit the plot, rather than let the characters guide the plot.
Absolutely! I rant about it not infrequently. I think Rodney frequently reverts to earlier stages of character development, not just for plot reasons, but because the writers think it will get them a cheap laugh. Hey, we all revert sometimes, but I'm really tired of watching Rodney act like he did when he was still a noob.

BH said he was particularly struck by the paucity of friendship shown between Ronon and Rodney given how close Rodney was to dying not all that long ago. They may not get each other, but they do care for each other. (Awww, team....)

I think Rodney frequently reverts to earlier stages of character development, not just for plot reasons, but because the writers think it will get them a cheap laugh.

The cheap laughs don't really bother me most of the time, because I can see it as part of Rodney's core character. He's capable of change, and he does change, but he thinks. A lot. Maybe all of the time, which can lead to him not thinking about the task at hand -- and missing social cues, so he winds up putting his foot into his mouth, realizing that he shouldn't be talking, should not be screaming at the top of his lungs and attract an entire troupe of Hunter Wraiths.

I'm more disgruntled when they do it for the sake of plot, and it's a major regression for no other point than they feel like they can because they're writers. For me, "Trinity" is a huge case of this. I honestly thought I saw a lot of character growth in season one, to the point where he wouldn't be making stupid jokes about John being his coffee maid, and would never intentionally and consciously use their friendship to meet his own agenda. Subconsciously, yeah, totally. But not deliberately and calculated.

And I think it annoys me more because when it's on screen, it's canon, and for me that's set in stone. Unless I can find a way to connect the character points in my mind, there seems to be no explanation for it. Which is probably why I write fanfic *g*

They may not get each other, but they do care for each other.

They really do care for each other, and darn it, Jason Momoa, they like each other. It was very, very apparent in "The Shrine".

given how close Rodney was to dying not all that long ago.

I'd agree with him on this, but they've been pretty cavalier with timelines as of late. For us it's been maybe four weeks since "The Shrine", for the characters? Who knows. Almost the entirety of season three was supposed to take place in six months. Keller's time on Atlantis changes per episode. Somehow, six months have passed between "The Seed" and "Whispers". I'm starting to think that Atlantis is stuck in a time vortex. ~~That, or the writer's don't use a Show Bible to keep things realistic and toss out numbers willy nilly to drive people like me crazy.~~

They really do care for each other, and darn it, Jason Momoa, they like each other.

I don't know that I read the entire interview, but I remember hearing that he didn't think Ronon and McKay were friends. I kinda took that as friends that hang out. Those two have nothing in common. That doesn't prevent Ronon from feeling that brotherly teammate bond - caring about McKay. I don't think Ronon and McKay hang out much. Beckett and McKay had/have so much in common as do John and Ronon (or Teyla and Ronon). I'm not sure Ronon would consider McKay his friend (like Sheppard and Teyla are). But I think he cares about McKay.

I did notice in The Shrine he wants to help McKay because he "owes" him. A sense of obligation because Rodney has saved his life in the past or because they are teammates or because he considers himself Rodney's protector?

I was very prepared to agree with you in that I just misread what Jason was saying... then out of curiosity I looked up the interview, and yeah... it gave me the same impression the second time around. I could be way off base, but I kind of feel that the interview is really more strictly Jason's POV... rather than Jason's intrepretation of Ronon's POV? That... or I really don't agree with Jason's interpretation of Ronon's POV.

I did notice in The Shrine he wants to help McKay because he "owes" him. A sense of obligation because Rodney has saved his life in the past or because they are teammates or because he considers himself Rodney's protector?

I still haven't quite figured out what he meant by that, to be honest *g* I'm leaning towards more of the intense brotherhood/teammate bond though than any sense of obligation. The way he smiles at Rodney in the infirmary when he says Ronon's name is so very fond.

I do know there are some inconsistencies with the character, and it is partly the writer's fault, but they don't just do it with Keller. They all have the tendency to use the characters to suit the plot, rather than let the characters guide the plot.

This is true, but it's more pronounced with Keller because she has less solid character features to latch onto. From the beginning, most of the chars had particularly strong traits that were established at their introduction and hold true, even when they experience severe fits of screenwriter schizophrenia - Rodney is always brilliant and arrogant and needs to be smarter than everyone; John will go to any lengths to save a teammate; Teyla is a Pegasus native who loves her people; Ronon hates and wants to kill Wraith. So they're broadly recognizable from episode to episode, if inconsistent. Keller doesn't have a dominant trait - she's a doctor, but that doesn't inform everything she does; she's smart but not brilliant; she's uneasy off-world but that's not always relevant and inconsistent besides. It makes her hard to grab onto - for the writers as well as the audience. So the writers all invent their own characterization, and the writers who are decent at characterization (Gero, Binder) can make her appealing (if different), while in the hands of a writer who can't handle characterization (Mullie in "The Seed") she ends up having no character at all; anyone could be in her role.

...Ummm I am shutting up now. Really!

I don't know... I do think that Keller has a broad and recongizable character structure, because I do recognize her from episode to episode. As the "show healer", her patients always come first. She's also not quite comfortable in her skin, which comes off as being unsure in her abilities or whininess at times.

I think what really makes her character more than a cardboard cutout are her quirks, which some writers just don't seem to be able to grasp. I notice that I like it when those like Binder and Gero bring out her sense of humor, her bravery in the face of danger, and even the unsureness in actions like her flinching (although that could come from Jewel). As for "The Seed"... yeah, sorry, she was pretty bland in that, no argument here. The first thing that comes to mind from that episode are stabby tentacles, not "Keller kicks ass."

However, I do think she has less quirks than Team Sheppard, although whether that's due to the fact that in Stargate the doctor roles are typically supporting, or a reluctance on their part to take a chance with her character.

I think the problem this season is they feel they need to use her since they've promoted her to the main cast. It was the same problem they had when trying to integrate Carson into more episodes. The design of the show just doesn't present them much opportunity to be more than doctors , so a lot of time their presence in episodes feels a little unnecessary?

I liked the episode! Went into it all open-minded and zen, and Keller seriously rocked.

I hate the 'two guys fighting over a girl' angle, I do, but competent Keller, and a hot new Runner and tough tracker Ronon and adorable Rodney with his non-existing combat skills and a new alien gadget and BEAUTIFUL Vancouver nature, it all made for a very enjoyable episode.

I can't pinpoint my reaction to Keller either. I like her, but I can't stop myself from thinking that she is too young to be Head of Medicine on an alien outpost. It keeps me from fully enjoying her character.

And about the love triangle. I don't understand why Rodney becomes so clueless and awkward when he likes a woman. Give me the overly-confident, acerbic Rodney who went after Carter in SG-1, over this stumbling, awkward guy any day. Ronon, however - oh, I love her with Ronon! I think they are adorable together - it shows Ronon's softer side and I love how he handles their friendship, very cool and low key.

Whee! \o/ Episode love!

A great big "YES!" to all the things you mentioned (I seriously loved the forest in this episode, so very pretty.) I wasn't exactly thrilled about it at first, but I have warmed to the idea of Ronon and Keller. I'm also not opposed to the idea of Rodney/Keller, but I had serious issues with the way it was dealt with in "The Shrine" that makes me hesitant to want to see it onscreen now.

I don't understand why Rodney becomes so clueless and awkward when he likes a woman. Give me the overly-confident, acerbic Rodney who went after Carter in SG-1, over this stumbling, awkward guy any day.

You see, I think Sam is a different ball game entirely *g* He sees her as being the same level as him mentally (and she completely beats him out in the physical and heroic aspect), and so he's threatened by her... as well as attracted to her. But I don't think he ever really believes there's a serious chance with her, like he might with Katie, Keller, or even Allina from "The Brotherhood". So in that way, he's more comfortable being around her, because he "doesn't stand a chance". Those he might have a shot at, he can't act like himself (ie: "the kinder, gentler Rodney McKay"), because he doesn't believe they'd like him. But, er, that's just my take on it.

I like her, but I can't stop myself from thinking that she is too young to be Head of Medicine on an alien outpost. It keeps me from fully enjoying her character.

Yes to pretty much all of this. The main reason I can't quite enjoy Keller's char is because I don't get her - I don't understand how she got her job; moreover, I don't understand why she wants her job. Is she interested in proving herself, or saving people, or meeting hot guys, or what?

Give me the overly-confident, acerbic Rodney who went after Carter in SG-1, over this stumbling, awkward guy any day.

YES. Okay, he was totally obnoxious about it - but Rodney knew what he wanted and he wasn't afraid to admit it, and he genuinely wanted Sam (even if mainly on the sexual level) rather than "a relationship" - which is how he comes across, to me, with both Katie Brown and Keller - that he's not attracted to them so much as attracted to the idea of being in love and having a girlfriend, never really getting to know the person he's supposedly in love with...

...eheh will stop ranting now. Sorry, Greyias! But. Yes. This.

Is she interested in proving herself, or saving people, or meeting hot guys, or what?

Oh yes, exactly that. Even Sgt Dusty got to explain why she transfered to Pegasus.

What really galls me, is the numerous posts and semi-scientific poll 'conclusions' that point to it being our fault that SGA was discontinued, because we, the fans, hate Keller.

I don't hate Keller, I don't begrudge her her scenes and I would love to see her in a relationship with Ronon (and why these things always have to be dragged out for two seasons, lord knows. Who would wait that long, stuck on a small base). But you know writers - I for one, would love some background, some explanation as to why she's Head of Medicine, brain surgeon, plastic surgeon *and* genetic scientist at the tender age of 26. It helps me to understand and warm up to her character.

[/rant]

What really galls me, is the numerous posts and semi-scientific poll 'conclusions' that point to it being our fault that SGA was discontinued, because we, the fans, hate Keller.

O RLY? XD Awesome that the first time the network executives decide to listen to "our opinion" they decide it's such a lost cause because people don't like one character. That someone would even suggest something is so... so... I'll stop myself before I possibly start wanking.

But my curiosity is piqued... which polls are these?

ps Grey, I'd love to read that follow-up meta post. XD

Okay... I'll see if I can salvage the tangential rants into some actual meta. Right now it's more rambly, and not exactly coherent.

But my curiosity is piqued... which polls are these?

I was overstating the numbers a little (*g*), but this one (http://dragonladyk.livejournal.com/136890.html) was posted in the newsletter. I found it biased (the 'like' option was *not* part of the poll), but the results (http://dragonladyk.livejournal.com/138276.html) were interpreted and posted anyway, and you know how it goes, once it is out there, people don't dismiss it out of hand.

Then, according to Jewel Staite herself (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=147037658&blogID=421479063&Mytoken=9B2A5486-46E4-4287-86DC8436D9B9FFDB48378429), there is a "world of anti-Keller threads" out there and even Joe M. addressed the anti Keller feelings on his blog.

Of course a show doesn't go from a 2.0 rating to 0.9/1.3 without something causing that, so maybe the termination of Beckett and Weir had more impact than the network expected and Keller and Carter couldn't counter that. I'm just not sure if a new show aimed at an entirely different demographic is the way to go. If I were C&W I would have hung on to SGA for one more season to see how SGU will pan out, but maybe they don't have the budget to produce two shows (which is worrisome in itself).

Darn work filters, I'll have to read Jewel's bit later. That poll though... my only response to it and the conclusions drawn from those results is "... ... ..."

so maybe the termination of Beckett and Weir had more impact than the network expected and Keller and Carter couldn't counter that

I do think that killing off major characters is a turn off for audiences, and not just for die-hard fans who possibly over analyze it on their journals *g* I don't fan hard on every show I watch, but if they kill off my favorite character, or a character that I really like... it's doubtful I'll tune back in next year. Despite what producers may think, I personally don't watch television for shock value or realism.

The reasoning behind SGA's cancellation still baffles me, because it's natural to try and lead in a new show with something that will help boost it's audience. It could possibly be budgetary reasons, shows get really expensive year six plus... but who knows. There's some days I have a hard time not feeling like SGA is the red-headed step-child of the Stargate franchise.

I had a similar reaction, was expecting to dislike it and was surprised I didn't. I do kinda wish Rodney & Ronon had been the A-plot, because yay for woodsy hijinx and saving themselves/each other - but then the triangle might've been emphasized in that case, so more content with it like this.

Damsel-in-distress!Rodney is so pretty! *cough* (and the bear-trap! Weren't we just talking about that? XP)

Keller...ehhhhh. I'm annoyed because I did like her when she was first introduced, and now I've swung over to not liking her, and I'm having trouble swinging back even though she did a lot of good stuff in this ep that I should like her for. I was really pleased to hear she has been studying hand-to-hand (and also pleased that they pitted her against a Wraith that had already been shot in the heart a couple times, because it made it believable to me that she could defend herself while Rodney reloaded. Which he really needs to practice more, poor thing. Though I liked how he fired without hesitating, confident enough of his aim even with Keller right there - mmm, Rodney with pistol, saving people!)

(I, uh, am very curious about your ranty post. Could I be on that filter? Or else could you send a private copy? I promise I won't argue too much? ^^;)

*sobs* I had a huge, insightful post on Keller, and humorous and fun alternative A-plots for this episode written out, and then I accidentally closed the tab, and I'm not sure I remember most of it. Very annoying.

Damsel-in-distress!Rodney is so pretty! *cough*

They should put Rodney in mortal peril once a week, just so we can have adequate eye candy. I certainly wouldn't complain.

(and the bear-trap! Weren't we just talking about that? XP)

We were! I actually giggled a little when I saw the trap because of that! Well, it's less steel and metal, but still looks just as painful.

I, uh, am very curious about your ranty post. Could I be on that filter? Or else could you send a private copy?

LOL, well, both you and

trystings asked to see it... so maybe I'll try and salvage something that resembles an actual post. I wound up stopping after I got off into a big tangent about the last five seconds of "The Shrine", that definitely strayed from meta into the territory of "TPTB aren't writing to my specifications". Which, uh, wasn't my original point. Darn tangents.

I promise I won't argue too much? ^^;

Haha, I'd more likely just blink, decide you were right, and change the subject. It's why I always have to leave the room when people start discussing politics, because for some reason that tactic never works.

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The Tracker, intial reaction

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